God Loves Women Too, Right?
Of the many things that Jesus might have been getting at when he urged his followers to become “like little children,” I think near the top of my list would be the flat-out curiosity and forthrightness that I see so often in my own kids. I have found conversations with a couple of seven year-olds to be about as interesting (and reliable) a source of theological insight as any books on my shelf or sermons I hear (or deliver!).
The following conversation with my son N., which took place after our morning breakfast prayer, provided another example…
N.: Dad, is “amen” only for men?
Dad: Of course not, why would you say that?
N.: Well we say aMEN…
Dad: Ah, I see. Well, the word “amen” doesn’t really have anything to do with men specifically. It’s a word that originally comes from another language—it means something like “so be it,” or “let it be so.”
N. (seemingly satisfied with this answer—once the “comes from another language” card is played, that’s usually enough to send him off to other, more fruitful areas of exploration): Oh.
(Brief pause, for a couple of monstrous spoonfuls of Froot Loops)
N.: Dad, God loves everyone right?
Dad: Yes, of course he does. Why do you ask?
N. (recalling a line—”born for all men“—from a Christmas concert he sang four months ago): But we say that God loves men.
Dad: Yeah, you’re right N. It’s weird isn’t it? In the past, some people would use “men” or “man” or “mankind” when they meant “all people.”
N.: Why?
Dad: That’s a good question, N.
N.: Because God loves women too, right dad?
He certainly does. It’s funny how our familiarity with certain customs or ways of speaking causes them to lose their strangeness over time. I remember having very similar questions when I was somewhere around my son’s age. I wondered why “men”/”mankind” could mean “male human beings” or “male and female human beings” but the same wasn’t true of “women” or “womankind.” I wondered (but never bothered asking) how girls and women felt about this. I wondered if I, as a boy, would appreciate being lumped into the category of “women” or “womankind.”
And then, somewhere along the way, I stopped wondering. I probably learned a bit about the evolution of culture and language and I probably had it explained to me that using these terms was just how we did things and wasn’t meant to be insulting to women. I probably grew so familiar with the accepted nature of these locutions that they gradually became less puzzling/mildly offensive to me. Even though I was/am/will continue to be careful not to use words in these ways myself, I slowly stopped being surprised.
Perhaps this is one area (among many) where I could become more “like a little child.” Because God does love women too, and our language ought to reflect this.
(For those wondering what my daughter C. made of the above discussion—one of such obvious personal existential import and relevance—her time was spent obliviously toying with breakfast, playing with various plastic animals and pestering the cat. Evidently these weighty concerns of gender, language, and the nature of God have not yet troubled her too much…)
Rumblings 
The NRSV has largely been sanitized of the male pronouns. In seminary, most people believed that was not enough to fix its harmfulness to women. Instead the belief was that large sections of the Bible need to be removed, decanonized. One professor said we should get rid of 95% of the Bible.
I often hear people avoid pronouns in connection with God by just repeating the word God everywhere one might use a pronoun and saying God’s self, instead of himself or herself. In addition, they avoid saying Father and Son, substituting Creator and Redeemer. And they replace Holy Ghost with Sustainer – it sounds more modern, I suppose, and it kind of rhymes with the other two. Others always use the feminine pronouns in connection with God and refer to God as Mother.
Poor God – he has become so embarrassing:-) And the Bible is on the banned list.
Are you mormon?
I came across a good quote from Frederick Buechner this week:
I think this could be applied both to those who rigidly cling to masculine pronouns to refer to God and to those who can barely contain their desperation to avoid them. Poor God, indeed.
i been looking up does God love women because the last few sunday all i have heard is how bad woman are and that were are basically the reason why men are not in the place where God told to them to be. I not a scholar in the word of God but in life I blame no one for the wrong choice I made. but i learn and try to grow from them. But i finding myself pick up more wounds since I turned my life over to God. I have not been told that i worthless as much as i have in the last few weeks. I am tired of be belittled so I wonder does God love women equally to men. I am confused
Whoever is telling you that women are bad or worthless or to blame for men’s predicament (how is it different than women’s, I wonder) are simply flat out wrong, plain and simple. They are not reading their Bibles correctly. You can rest assured that you are not worthless and that God loves you and all women deeply. The churches or people that are belittling you and other women are sinning against God and against their fellow human beings by doing this. God absolutely loves women as much as men.
As a teenage girl, I have been always mocked with the whole “women belong in the kitchen jokes” the whole “go make me a sandwich” jokes. Knowing that my friends were just saying those things in good fun, I turned the other cheek. However, when it dawned upon me that men are using God’s holy words as a weapon against women, I was deeply hurt. (Especially the things said by men in this thread: http://www.godhatessinners.com/content.php?167-Only-Sluts-Get-Raped!-(1st-Timothy-2-9) but then again that whole entire website is full of hate.) This week I have to admit that ive been religiously confused, gutlessly flip flopping between two sets of beliefs: wicca and Christianity. Wanting all the chaos to stop, I decided it would be best tosticl stick with what ive always believed in: God, but I had to ask myself one final question: what does God think of me as a girl? Thank the Lord I found this page, because just reading the comments I felt better. I was th
*thrown into a spiraling whirlwhind of confusion. Good to know that even some guys think women and men are equal in God’s eyes.
I’m glad the comments here have been helpful for you. The website you linked to is truly disgusting on many levels—good for you, for seeking out better voices than this as you navigate your questions.
There are some men that you will come across sometime in your life that say or believe that men are better or superior to women because god gave them leadership.
But really no, that isn’t true.
In todays society many people beleive that women are only here to produce more men because men are the better gender.
This is also not true, they are lying to you.People are selfish and greedy and they want to be like god.
Men do have leadership but god is the one with the real power. Men just make sure everything is ok in the family and keeps it all in order. (In life not heaven)
Men are stronger but that doesn’t make them better.
They fight and need that trait for people who are threats to the family.
So no god didn’t make men better.
Men just took it the wrong way and put themselves first instead of doing what god told them to do. (They basically listened to the Devil)
And those men go to hell.
And don’t get upset when you hear about all the things men can do and women can’t
Women can’t become pastors but I don’t even want to be a pastor so I don’t care.
If god loved men more he wouldn’t of even created women.
But he did so man and woman are equal.
Men will lie to you because they want to feel better about themselves and they feed off of people who are weaker.
Like I said before, those men go to hell.
I feel the same worthlessness from being a woman. When I read the Bible, listen to my Pastors, and seek advice from my spiritual peers, it is projected to me that I am of secondary importance to the man in my life. If I would submiss to my husbands rules, then I would have better kids. If he says no church or bible study.. so be it. If hes in a bad mood and wants to intimidate my kids and me, I should bake him some cookies with a hushed tone. I’m at a point right now to where I am starting to wonder why I’m even alive. Is it to subjectify myself to mens wants. My faith is waivering. I love God with all my heart, and they say he will never hurt you or let you down.. but I’m feeling both.
I’m very sad to hear how you are feeling Kimberly. I obviously know nothing about you or your situation, but when I hear someone say that they wonder why they are alive because of how people are treating them as a woman, I know that there are men in your life who are badly abusing the authority that they seem to think they have over you.
I can’t say much more than what I said in response to the previous comment. The people who are making you feel this way are simply wrong. They are reading their bibles incorrectly. They are acting in ways that are sub-Christian. They are not loving and serving you as Christ commands them to do. I don’t know what advice I can give you other than to try to find other people in your life who have a better understanding of Scripture who can show the men in your life how they are in error and model more appropriate ways of acting like men.
You are not of secondary importance to any man. You are loved and valued as an image-bearer of God, no less than the men who are seeking to put you down. Never forget this. And find people who can help you move toward a more biblical and life-giving understanding of gender relations.
You’re not alone I feel the same way. It’s very, very painful to think that we may be of less importance to God than men are.
I too feel the same way! It’s true that G-d made both man and women but he made woman FOR man. Because Adam was lonely G-d made Eve. It bothers me because I know that I’m made just for my husband. However he’s not just made for me though. When I pray and get answer from G-d it’s about my husband not really me. Yes G-d may love me but not as much as He loves my Adam. I’ve never felt so demoted before in my life and by my G-d? That makes it 1,000,000 times worse! 😦
I believe men are afraid of women and that is why they use the Bible to try keep us down even the men in the Bible were treatened by women and made these rules up and tried to pass them off as God’s law because no matter what men do there is one thing they will never be able to do which is have a baby, and that is a gift of God given only to women..
God loves us..
Malicia,..It sounds as if that bitter root of hurt and resentment has found a permanent home in you and most likely will eat your lunch everyday for the rest of your life, as long as you feed and nurture it….God help us all
I know I am reading this article somewhat late, however I can relate to these women. Been searching for some scriptures that identify that God loves me as a woman. I too am a student of the word, and I know I have an assignmnent on my life to encourage other woman about the goodness of God. However, I find myself struggling not to let my contenance show my hurt because it seems that the men that I have come in contact with who say they love the Lord, some even Pastors, speak about women in such terrible ways. I know that we are the weaker vessel, but from the comments these Christian men make it’s as if we are always looking to get into some sort of mischief and this just isn’t true. I was listening to a Christian man as he was talking to me just recently, and he used the words again “All women” and what followed was very negative, and I sat their trying to hold back the tears, which didn’t work. Since then, I feel I have no power to minister peace, and teach women to be Kingdom minded from the bible, I am struggling with why I am I here for, if I’m looked at as something to avoid or stay away from when it comes to men. It’s just very hurtful.
Thank you for sharing this. I wish I could say something profound or unique or wonderfully insightful, but mostly your comments just make me very sad. And angry. It makes me angry that there are men out there who abuse the Bible like this and who make you feel like anything less than a dearly loved image-bearer of God. It makes me angry that some men are so pathetically insecure and weak that they have to dominate women and try to justify it with their warped interpretations of Scripture.
I wish I could say something that would make things better for you, but I can’t. All I can say is that I believe that God is especially near to the the brokenhearted, the hurt, the abused and the misused. I really hope that you will find and listen to voices in your community that will tell you the truth—that these men are wrong in their views of women and that you are worth much more (to God and to those that you are ministering to) than you can imagine.
Thanks for your comments Ryan, and to the other people for expressing concerns and opinions. I felt, on and off, for many years that God somehow loved men more; healing has to happen gradually sometimes, whatever it is we are being healed from. Wounds from other christians go deeper than they do caused by others.
To the girls here: hang in there and keep asking God for revelations of his love to you. It has taken me years and years and God is still on the case with me, he doesn’t get bored of telling you and showing you! Thank you God for men like Ryan who do care about how we feel as your daughters 🙂
God definately loves us women, but its like I have to continually be convinced of it 😦
I have given up – I did not feel loved by family, I do not feel valued by society and I feel that I am given fewer gifts, such as self-defense, by God. Only a very few people love me – and God loves me somewhat. I am trying so hard to love myself – in spite of the roaring negative tide. I feel as though I am like a salmon swimming upstream – my entire life. I give up, I just want to stop – and let God take me home. I give up.
I don’t know what to say, Kate. Online communication is a very poor substitute for the kind of face to face relational care that you need right now. I am so very sorry to hear how you are feeling. All I can say is, please don’t give up. Please don’t allow your self-worth to be defined by the cruel and careless judgments of others. Please understand that you are loved by God.
I can say all of these things, but I imagine they might sound hollow to you. Just words on a screen. All I can say is that behind the words is a real human beings who hurts for you and hopes and prays for better days ahead. I wish you much grace and peace for the journey. I pray that you find people close to you who can help you walk through this dark valley and rejoice with you on the other side.
Praise God! Thank you for your reply. It blesses me. Abundant Peace, Blessings and Proverbs 4:5-7
I want you women to know that God loves you with all of His being. I agree with what Ryan is saying about how they are WRONG. He’s right they are not reading there Bibles correctly. For Kimberly, what I basically got from your reply was “that you should submit to your husband without question and he can do what he wants”. But i have a important scripture for you “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife”-1 Cor 7:4.
Now to “desirebydesign” i noticed that you had said that you were looking for scriptures that relate, in a good way, towards women. First to understand that alot of times in the Bible when it refers to men/man, as Ryan said, its talking about mankind. I honestly really don’t know any scriptures off the top of my head that directly say something good towards women, but if you bear with me for a second maybe I can take another approach.
This is for all the women who may think that there worthless in God’s eyes.
-I want you to know that the savior-Jesus Christ, was born fully God and fully man, by God and by a woman-the virgin Mary.
-The first person to speak to Jesus after He rose was Mary Magdalene. -John 20:1 and 20:11-18.
-Hannah in 1 Samuel pleaded with the Lord to bless her with children because she wasn’t able to bear. She made a promise with Him that if he gave her a child she would give the child (Samuel) to the Lord. That was the bet, so the Lord blessed her with Samuel, she kept her end and gave him to live with the priest. That was the deal, nothing more and nothing less, but God Himself chose to bless her with three more sons and two daughters, to herself.-1 Samuel
-Or what about Hagar who was the maidservant to Sarah, Abraham’s wife, when she was nothing more then a servant and Sarah got mad at her and kicked her out. She had nowhere to go, no money, no nothing, but scripture says that God personally went after her and found her and told her to go back and that the son she had born from Abraham, would be blessed along with his descendants.– Gen 16
-You also have the woman God chose to hide the two spies of Israel when the King of Jericho had found out that they entered into his land. Every single person and animal were killed but God spared the woman Rahab because she had faith in who God was and hid two of his people.–Joshua 2
-Even Solomon in Proverbs wrote that “He who finds a WIFE finds a good thing and favor from the Lord”-Proverbs 18:22. Only woman can be wives.
Then you have Jesus Himself………
-When the people brought the woman who was caught in adultery, to Jesus. They wanted to stone her because of what Mosiac law says. In fact if you read the story because Jesus was the only One who never sinned, He was also the only One who had the right to stone her. What did He do? He forgave her, told her to sin no more, and let her go.–John 8:1-11
-Again when Mary washed Jesus’ feet with the oil and her hair, one of the disciples, that was a man, got mad but Jesus stood up for her. I don’t know about you guys but to me it would be more than an honor to wash my Lord’s feet.–John 12:1-8
There are so many more versus in the Bible that relate to a good view on woman. I haven’t read all of the Bible so I can’t give you all the account. Read it for yourself and trust in the fact that God loves you. Don’t let ANYONE tell you that your not worth anything. You have to understand that men were used more dominantly in the Bible because woman didn’t have the rights that they have today and most people wouldn’t of listened to a woman back then. God loves you, each and every one of you, don’t give up on Him because He didn’t give up on you when He was beaten, spit on, mocked, kicked, whipped, ridiculed and hung on a cross to die. Just trust in Him.
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”–Jeremiah 29:11
Hi Matt, I just had a chance to read your comment. It tremendously blessed me. I know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual wickedness. I know that although God loves me, the enemy hates women (all mankind). In Genesis after the fall of man because of deception God said: “And I will put enmity (hatred) between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; He was talking to satan. (Between Thy Seed and Her Seed meaning “the children of God and the children of satan). As I said, I know the warfare is spiritual.
This is why John 15 blesses me so much, because it’s Jesus’ love letter to me.
I hear a lot of men in church speak of women as the weaker vessel and not to be trusted – and it still pierces my heart and the tears come still today. I guess this is because I often wonder if God will bring the right man into my life one day that will see my true heart for Christ as a woman – that I am permanently rooted in Christ.
The bottom line is that the negative remarks are an attack on my faith. I have to believe that it is possible that a man who loves God can see the goodness of Christ in a woman’s heart and want to love her with the love of Christ.
Thank you again for your annointed comment.
Also Matt, with your permission I would like to use your comments on my Ministry Blog to encourage other women as I know many women deal with the same lie of the enemy.
Just to add, I was reading my Bible and ran across this…….
“In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came for man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.”–1 Cor 11:11-12
I cried and cried when I read these women’s comments. I wondered if there was another women who felt like me. I mean I am a leader in women’s group in my church and wonder if I should just step down and give everything up. I am very angry with God and I almost say I want to throw in the towel with Him. I feel like a second hand citizen. How can God possibly understand me? He has never walked this earth as a woman. You tell me. I understand it is man’s crap that caused these feelings and not God, but yet he stands by and watches as little girls get raped, and women are beaten and does nothing. I mean really does he love them? I know of a religion where if a women gets raped she is charged and put in jail…WHATS up with that. oh wait, if she can find 4 upstanding MEN to vouch for her she might get off. If I was God and had the power and supposed love he has I would stop that crap in an instant! I have a little girl and I have no hope for her. I mean if I don’t think God loves me and can’t relate to me as a woman what am I going to tell her about God’s love for her. She already sees the biased world we live in. I put on a smile and teach her about God’s word but in my heart I just want to scream. I have a very loving husband and a wonderful life but I just can’t help but wonder about how all the religions including Christianity put women under the bus. You know sometimes I wonder if it would be better that I wasn’t born than to have this struggle. It consumes every part of me. Though you wouldn’t know by looking or talking to me. I am very ashamed and feel dirty just for being a women…hmm wonder were that came from? i don’t even want to read the word any more it is filled with abuse and disregard for women. Who would want to put her whole life and heart into something that belittles who she is? To me it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t God’s will, because He did nothing about it…..selah
I have been struggling so much with the same thing. I would like to talk to you if possible.
Your missing the whole point, God does love you, God loves you so much that He died for you. It doesn’t say God died for man, it says God died for the world, both women and men. God loves you so much. You say you want God to stop people from raping and killing woman, but thats asking God to stop evil and what is evil-anything thats against God. That means that we would be eliminated too. Even if the only thing we ever did was break the commandment of telling a lie. God gives us free will and a choice, yes God can intervene and who’s to say He hasn’t. You hear stories, bad ones and assume God isn’t with them or doesn’t see whats going on. You can’t put a stop to evil, without putting a full stop to evil and as i said before that means me and you. The Bible says that the only thing that is good is God, which means God’s standards judge evil and good. Anything where God is not present, is evil. The lack of lightness is darkness. Plain and simple. I urge you to keep the faith and trust in God because He loves you. The Bible says He has numbered the very hairs on your head, if God didn’t care, why take so much dedication in a creation? A lot of times people take out of context what the Bible is talking about towards women. What did people learn in school when it came to learning about something–you learned who, what, where and when. Sometimes people read what the bible says and don’t try to learn about it. They don’t do the research and see what type of group of people they were talking to at that time. They don’t do the who, what, where and when research. The Bible says God doesn’t tempt anyone or cause them to sin, in fact He gives them a way out. Those people who are committing rape, murder and so on, are not of God. Please don’t give up, God loves you, ask Him if He loves you. Just talk to Him, I promise He will answer and respond. God Bless.
I get what you are saying about sin in the earth and our free will. I am sorry I am just venting and I am a little angry at God right now. But I still can’t get past the idea that He made me second class and that I will never measure up and that I will never be able to really relate to Him. Only because I am a women. He has never walked this earth as a woman so how can he even begin to understand me. It makes me feel a million miles away from Him. I soo want to believe that He loves me but I’m not there yet. I have felt this way ever since I became a Christian and started reading the Bible. I just ignored it and threw myself into His ministry and give it my all. But I was ministering to other women from a dry cup. I cry all the time about this because I feel I will never be as close to Him as my heart of hearts desires to be. I really need Him to show me his love in a real way. I am not even sure how I expect Him to do that. But I am really on the edge and I need Him. The enemy is on my heels and he’s fixing to catch up to me. I realize its futile to try to live without Him. For me its like being between a rock and a hard place. I just really want to throw in the towel on the whole thing. You know if I thought He really loved me and valued me I would love being a women. I love a lot of aspects about being a woman, its actually kinda fun but I just can’t get past the thoughts that He doesn’t value me because of what He made me. So right now I am a shell of a woman. KWIM? I have never ever mentioned any of these feelings to anyone ever. But I do know that I have to get past this issue or I am just going to be a useless as I feel I am for the kingdom of God.
@ Me,
I want to let you know that you are fearfully and wonderfully made – that there is no flaw or defect in you according to God through Christ. If you love God you must not let this fact slip your heart. It is satan’s desire to sift you as wheat, like he did to Peter in the bible. God said in his word in Hebrews that it is impossible to please him without faith – that we must know that he is, and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Faith works by Love and without love we cannot hold on to our faith. That’s why the enemy so fiercely attacks whether or not we are loved as women. God said he loves us with a perfect love in the book of Isaiah. Only by faith can you receive this revelation. We can’t reason or worship God in the physical only in spirit and in truth.
The enemy wishes to stop the gospel from being preached when Christ said go into the world and preach the good news. As a leader in ministry I know you can relate that the leaders are on the front line of attack.
Isaiah 61: said
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord have appointed me to preach good tidings to the meek,
he hath sent me to:
bind up the brokenhearted,
to claim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord
and the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all that mourn;
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion
To give them beauty for ashes
the oil of joy for mourning
the garment of praise for spirit of heaviness
That they might be called the trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he may be glorified.
Hold fast to this truth, hold fast to the profession of your faith and when anything happens in your life that’s contrary to God’s promises cast it down and exalt his truth.
I know exactly how you feel…I still battle this everyday too. But at the end of the day, the Lord always reveals and reminds me that I am truly loved. I used to think that when the Lord told me once that I was loved, I probably was not going to hear it again. Boy was I wrong. Someone told me that he never gets tired of telling us that he loves us, and now I know exactly what that means now. One day when I was questioning the Lord, I said to him, “How can you know what I’m feeling and going through? How can you know my pain & suffering when you never walked in a woman’s shoes?” That is when I got a message from him that said “When I created man and woman, I took qualities from me to create you both separately and differently from each other but at the same time these qualities complimented one another. Although woman was taken from man, I created you with the qualities that I did not give to man, making you unique apart from man, as man was created to be unique apart from woman.”
Now if that doesn’t sound like I was created fearfully and wonderfully made by the hands of God, I don’t know what will! The Lord reminds me of this same message (among other messages as well) that lets me know that he truly loves me and he has not forgotten me and he knows exactly what I’m going through because HE is the Creator who created everything and everything comes from him, including the pain and suffering that a woman feels. Every time you feel the urge to get mad at God, I pray that you will ask him to show you and to ask him to tell you how so important you are to him…and if you wait patiently for His response, you will not regret it, it will be worth waiting for his response. I know every time I get the urge to get mad, I stop what I am doing and I cry out to the Lord…and I patiently wait for his response. And I assure you he will respond, because not a day goes by that I’m not reminded of his love for me.
Its such a shame to hear you say those things. It hurts me to hear it, and I know it hurts God to hear it.God didn’t make you second class, when the disciples asked Jesus will there be marriage in Heaven and He said no because we all will be like the angels. God was saying there was no rank. That all would be equal. God didn’t make women seem inferior, man did that all on his own. Some men, and the pervious generations may have saw woman as lower then man, but God sees us all the same.When the Jews were taken slaves by the Egyptians did they give up on God because Egypt thought they were inferior? No they cried out to God! The longer you say God dosen’t love you the longer you call Him a liar. There’s somewhere in the Bible and I can’t recall where its at but Paul says that everything besides food water and clothing are a blessing! How many blessings do you have? God blesses us because He loves us! Not to be mean, but stern, how much more can God show He loves you then what He did for you that night on the cross? Your anger towards God is something you and Him have to talk about. Tell Him how you feel, God understands, He listens, He talks back and He loves! He loves you! I’m sorry I can’t pull scriptures I’m writing you on my blackberry at work lol. Don’t give up on God, remeber He didn’t give up on you everytime you committed a sin. Instead He said “I Love you, let me get involved!”. Remember Satan comes to steal, kill and destory. There’s a reason Jesus put it in that order. Satan steals ur heart away from God, by using lies and lusts of this world. If he’s sucessful he kills ur life with God. If you give up on Jesus, then he suceeds in destroying ur soul. Don’t let him take u from God. Fight back and believe that Jesus loves you!
You know, I was just about to totally give up. I sit in many tears and write this. When I said I was on the edge I really wasn’t kidding. I can hardly stand this pain I feel. I almost feel like its gonna over take me. I can’t imagine how Jesus felt when God “forsook” Him at the cross. If its even half of how it feels to think God doesn’t love you or value you I can understand more what He sacrificed for us at the cross. I would take a million lashes and they could nail me to what ever they choose, but to not have God’s love is unexplainably unbearable. I told God today that he could do what ever he wanted. I would just go though the motions like I always do. I shook my fist at him and cursed him but my heart was breaking all the while. He knows I don’t mean it I just can’t seem to express myself correctly to him these days. But I also know He is a big God and can deal with my finite feelings. But yes, I also realize I need to be careful at what I yell to the sky….KWIM I realize I have to work one on one with God to get what I need from him. But I will say that Matt and Desire your words have helped me get though another day. You know I am slowly but surely directing some of the anger towards the enemy. I have carried this so long and now its coming to a head. I kept it so long because the enemy told me that I better not share how I feel becasue it may snare another woman into this horrible trap I am in. I believed him hook line and sinker. I thought I was “protecting” others when in fact he was dividing and destroying me. And I am ashamed to say today he almost had me. Your words are more then just words they are water to my parched soal.
I will still never understand why some men want women to feel this way and why they thought it was ok as God’s supposed leaders to act in a way to make someone even question their worth before God. I still need to work through a few more things and I am trying to be sure not to direct this anger towards men either…that would be a whole other issue…UGH! I really do thank God for your kind and well needed firm words. I know one day this whole ordeal will be behind me and God will use it to grab someone else out of the snare of the enemy.
Amen!! Thats awesome you women are starting to see how much God loves you, loves all of us. To desirebydesign, absolutely you can use my comments on your webpage. Anything to further God. You don’t even have to ask. Yeah it sounds like the way your looking for a man you can be with to talk about Christ and for him to see you the way Christ sees you, as an equal, is the same way i’m looking for a wife. So I can kinda understand where your coming from. To “me,” its such a wonderful relief to hear that your starting to understand the enemy and understand that God loves you. Keep searching for His face, keep desiring Him, and He will come deeper into your life. I have been living my life for Christ now for a year, I got saved on Thanksgiving 2008 and its the greatest feeling in the world. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Christ’s love is overwhelming, the lusts of this world can’t compare. I recently just had my first conversation with God (usually He tells me to do something, but this was an actual conversation) and it was awesome. God wants to be a part of our lives, of your life, as much you want Him to be also. Something that always gives me goosebumps is that Christ said He knows our names. So that means God personally knows your name “Me” and “desire”. As far as some men wanting women to feel that way, I can’t personally answer that one. All I can say is that there is One Man who is the same yesterday, today and forever more, (Hebrews 13:8) His name is Jesus. No matter what the position or what gender or what race, we have to remember that we are all human, all sinners, God is the only perfect One. Not even the men of great faith in the Bible were perfect, only Jesus. Look to God for answers, look to God for examples on how to live a godly life, look to Him for true love, look to Him for life. Amen to both of you and God bless! If anybody wants or ever needs to talk, you can email me at MatthewGreer906@comcast.net.
Hey what’s up? While I liked your article, I would have to find myself agreeing with the other women on here. The Bible seems to point to the idea that the husband can do no wrong yet it picks apart wives and women in general and insults them and pretty much calls us incompetent nags verse after verse after verse, but yet a man can do no wrong really in regards to his wife unless beating her pretty much or adultury (which men still get away with, my husband included). I don’t know, guess I’m just really confused right now. I’ve been a Christian for 10 years (I’m 25 right now and a mom of 2 soon to be 3) and I guess that I’m just having a really hard time understanding why and how my husband, who is also now a Christian (he wasn’t before he and I were married), can just brush lightly and like it doesn’t matter or wasn’t wrong under the rug the lies he’s told and still tells me, the dozens of prostitutes he’s slept with before we were married, the two other women he was engaged to in the past (he proposed to them and gave them rings, guess they actually mattered to him, and by the time he was dating me he didn’t even propose and we’ve been married for 6 years and I’m still waiting on the dang ring) the many women he slept with while we were dating and the fact that the only reason he stayed dating me is because I finally consented to sleep with him (I was taught that that is ONLY for marriage, but I knew that he was sleeping with other people to get what he wanted because I wouldn’t and I knew that if I didn’t then he’d say screw it and leave and then I felt like I’d never find anyone else because I am extremely introverted and hate meeting people). Then after we were married for a year we found out that I was pregnant and I jokingly asked him if he had any other kids (because I new that he’d been with dozens of people) and he happily said “no” only for me to find out last summer that he had another child with someone else when he was stationed in Japan but that it died. I feel like a used piece of trash, just like another whore to him. He looks at porn and when we are together intimately, he won’t even look at me (and I’m not unattractive by any means, I’m very petite and pretty) and when I ask him to look at me he just looks away and won’t, it’s almost like he’s thinking of being with someone else or something. I feel so gross after beign with him because I know how many prostitutes he’s been with and other people and it just sickens me. He doesn’t ever show me that he loves me either. I feel like I’m just here to be a daycare provider, maid and for sex occasionally. It’s so hard to be with someone who has hurt you so much and continues to do so. He doesn’t see anything wrong with it and it is killing me – he knows how much it bothers me he’s never even appologized for everything he’s put me through. I forgive him, but it still hurts so much everyday and I’ve prayed about it but have been unable to let God’s complete healing take place – there’s so much that needs to happen first.
Anyways, back to the Bible study thing, I’ve been trying to find one that doesn’t belittle women it’s like every couple’s Bible study I’m finding is all about how the woman is the worst person in the world and needs to change and bow to her husband’s every dictating whim and the husband needs to be MORE of a dictator?!?!?! I. Don’t. Think. So. It just makes me soooo angry that guys have practically no accountability but we’re supposed to be happy being trampled on and being suzy homemaker having to bend over backwards for everyone all of the time and be gleeful and happy about it and put ourselves on the back burner so to speak. It’s aggravating. The husband needs to change too. Wives need their husbands to show them they love them and that’s NOT done by dictating over them or ruling over them or with the idea that a wife needs to be a submissive, dimminuitive mouse of a person. I work all day to take care of our kids, keep the house clean, the chores done, earn an income, to the point where sometimes I just want to break down and cry and yet according to God it’s never enough. Yet all my husband has to do is work one job and then come home and kick back and then only occasionally help out with stuff around the hose and gripe about why it’s not done in the first place when I’ve been up and running around like a chicken with my head cut off since 6am busting my butt to do everything. No. Women need to be loved, they need to be treated like they matter, they need husbands to do nice things for them, think of them every once in awhile, even if it’s just flowers or something (we’ve been together 9 years. I can count on one hand how many times that’s happened), take us out on a date (ha.hahahhahaa. hilarious – that NEVER happens only in fairytale land) just do something nice and considerate. It makes me SO ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! We’re just expected to be happy being treated like slaves and we’re never given anything we so desperately want and desire in return – thoughtfulness, consideracy, love, romance (and no I don’t read those garbage romance books I think they’re horrid), and interest in who we are as a person. Instead, all they do is take and never give back. What a horrid life.
Why don’t you leave him? You deserve a good life!
Well first off, God loves you. Jesus loves you so much that He gave His life for you on the cross. He died for your sins so that you could actually have a relationship with God. Second, any person that walks with Christ, men or women, are suppose to strive more to be like Christ. The Church (body of Christ, not the four walls) is Christ’s bride and He is the groom. A man is to treat his bride the same way that Christ treats His bride.
Paul says in Ephesians 5:22-24 “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”
This submission is not the submission that people take out of selfish gain. It says “Now as the Church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands”. We submit to Christ out of love, the love that Christ has for us. Christ gave us a choice, either to follow Him or live our lives dieing in our sin. But Christ gives us a choice, He doesn’t make us do anything. Christ and His love, allows us to submit to Him. We see God as the loving God that He is. We see all that He has done for us, why wouldn’t then we willfully submit to Him? When Paul says the wife is to submit to the husband, he means in everything that is right and lawful. Marriage is God’s covenant, not mans. God is just and holy, a loving God, who is abounding in love and slow to anger (Numbers 14:18) God would not ask a woman to submit to a man who is unjust and unlawful, because that would be against His character. He can’t even be in the presence of sin (Habakkuk 1:13). A God who is loving, would not expect a wife who is being mistreated and abused to submit to her husband. So many people take this verse out of context.
Again Paul goes on to say in Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her” Christ loves us so much that He gave His life for us. A Husband who loves His bride that much, would not abuse her or mistreat her, but instead love her. Paul goes on to say “to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.”-Ephesians 5:26-27 He gave up His life, to make us holy, perfect, without blemish, holy and blameless. It doesn’t say He gave up His life for His bride for any other reason then to perfect her, to make her beautiful and prosperous in her walk with Him. Remember “her-the church” is us, the men and women.
Ephesians 5: 28-30 says “In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of His body.” A man is to love his wife, as he loves himself. To love his wife as Christ, loves us.
It sounds like your husband has some issues that he needs to work out in order to love you correctly. It also sounds like your mis-hearing God and what He is saying for you as a wife. Man is not God’s favorite, nor is woman, for God takes no favoritism. (Romans 2:11)
The god of the bible does show favoritism. That god does not love women at all-does not even want freedom for women-only slavery.
God loves you DMH, Christ laid His life down for you, so that you could have a relationship with Him. Thats how bad He wants to be in your life. Christ was whipped forty times with a roman flagrum. It had anywhere from 3-9-12 balls made out of nails, rams forehead, and glass. When they would whip Him, the flagrum was designed to grasp a hold and rip apart and tear, as it pulled through flesh and organs. Not only that, but He was forced afterwards to pick up His cross and walk to His grave sight as people mocked, spit, punched and kicked Him. Not to mention the crown of thorns the soldiers placed on His head, to mock Him. After He reached the sight, they drove nails through His hands and feet, nailing Him to the cross. The nails were six to eight inches long. Its said that the nails were driven through His wrists, not palms. The reason they say this is because the Romans had mastered torture. There is a tendon in the wirst that extends to the shoulder. The Roman guards knew that when the nails were being hammered into the wrist that tendon would tare and break, forcing Jesus to use His back msucles to support Himself so that He could breath. Both of His feet were nailed together. So that He was forced to support Himself on the single nail that impaled His feet to the cross. Its said that He would of been in to much pain to support Himself with His legs, so He would be forced to alternate between arching His back and then using His legs just to continue to breath. Imagine how much suffering and pain your savior went through, just to justify YOU, before God. Jesus endured that reality for over 3 hours. It said that the humand body contains 5-6 liters of blood. In the days of the Old Testament when they would sacrifce a animal, they would drain it of all its blood. Because it was the blood that covered thier sins. A Roman guard had pierced Jesus’ side with a spear and only water came out. They say the body is made up out of eighty percent water. That means that Jesus had suffered on that cross until his entire body bleed out. When the soldier pierced His side, all that was left was water. God, the Father, litterly turned His face from Jesus because Jesus was bearing all of our sin, on Himself. When Christ gave up His life, they buried Him in a tomb. Three days later God rose Jesus Christ from the dead. In which He became a living sacrifice for us all. If that doesnt show that God loves you, then I don’t know what else does?
One last thing to ponder, 1 Corinthians 7:3-4 says “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.”
Talk to God, establish a relationship with Him, if you don’t have one.
It’s been very intriguing for me to see some of the responses to this post that have trickled in over time. It is heartbreaking to hear about how women are sometimes treated—especially when this mistreatment is justified via appeals to Scripture.
Some of you have shared some very personal and painful stories here. While I am glad that something in the original post (and subsequent conversation in the comments section) resonated with you and was perhaps even helpful to you, I feel I need to mention that a blog is not an adequate forum to discuss some of these problems. Based on the stories some of you have shared, you need to find someone trustworthy to share these things with face to face. It sounds like there is abuse (on a number of different levels) going on here, and this is not the kind of problem that can be solved online. You need to find someone (a pastor, counselor, therapist, etc) in your community with whom you (and your husband) can have sustained dialogue over time.
I wish all of you God’s peace and strength as you seek to move towards healthier, safer, and more biblical relationships with the men in your lives.
DHM:
My heart cries out for you! I Can I say I used to feel exactly like you do. I felt since I was a woman I was second class in the Lord’s eyes and that I was of no value to Him. I really was at my wits end and felt I had no reason to live. Was I put on this earth just to be used up and die? Well that’s what I thought…But God, though the mouths of Matt and Desire made me see it in a different light. God by no means wants you to feel worthless or just used. That is neither His design or plan.
The bible says in
Ephisians 5:25-30
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body.
Does that sound like God wanted us(wives) to be treated badly or just used up for what ever man decided he needed or wanted at the time! NO WAY! He commanded husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church.
Do you realize how Christ loved the church and what He did to show that love? He not only suffered and died for the church but He put all his desires, needs, and wants aside for her (the church)! Christ put the church first and made sure all her needs were taken care of. He poured Himself into her, up to and including His suffering and death! That is how God commanded our husbands to treat us!
His word also says in
1 Peter 3:7
[ Husbands ] In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat your wife with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God’s gift of new life. Treat her as you should so your prayers will not be hindered.
See He also commend husbands to give us honor and understanding or their prayers would be hindered. Does that sound like a God who doesn’t value His girls?
And Yes, He commanded us wives to submit to our husbands among other things. But do you think it would be hard to submit to a husband that was treating you like the church?? No way! You would trust him and follow his lead because we would know that he had our best interest at heart and wasn’t moving in selfish gain but what would be best for our family..see what I mean. It really is a perfect plan. And if followed can paint a beautiful picture of Christ and the church!
But then sin comes in…yes in our husbands and in us. Sometimes our husbands are human and do things that are selfish and contrary to the Word as do wives. That’s when the perfect plan becomes scared. But if we both, husbands & wives are ultimately striving to be Christ-like these little bumps will be just that little bumps in the road that we just glide over and get back on our path…KWIM?
Anything you see that is not following Gods design and plans is not of God. I have learned in my reading that sometimes people, even in the Bible, didn’t follow God’s plan and women and men got hurt as a result of sin.
As wives we can never expect our husbands to not be human and mess up, we mess up too. But I think if husbands did what God commanded that wives would follow suit. That’s what it means to be a a leader. To be someone of example to follow.
But I will say, by reading your post, that your husband at this time is not acting as a Christian man/husband should, and I can see you are hurt and angered by it. Only God can change our hearts and once He does that our “ways” will follow. Pray for him earnestly and seek out help though a local church or counselor, but know that God loves you and he wants the very best for you! He has a design and plan for your life! You are valuable to Him!!! Put your value in what God says about you, not how people around you are treating you. Focus on your relationship with God and He will direct your path and be willing to change yourself too. I will be praying for your family! I know God can do wondrous things with willing hearts!!
I have learned a lot from this and Ryan I think your heart is right. However, you have advised us to meet with someone one on one to help us through the things we have been through and to work through them. I have done that many times and have been told I was the one causing the problems. I have since then quit complaining and held it all inside all the while thinking nobody cared about me, including God. Most women going through this abuse never get the opportunity to tell another person about it and often suffer alone blaming themselves for everything. We live in a cloud of shame. I am sure that I have been to blame for many things, but the amount and degree of abuse I have suffered could not just be me. I know there has to be a healthier solution, but I haven’t found it. May God Himself give us the answers we are so desperately seeking.
Thanks for this Tracy. It pains me to hear that you’ve gotten such inadequate, unhelpful, and unbiblical feedback from the people you’ve spoken to about your problems (problems I will not presume to understand, for obvious reasons). I wish I could say something profoundly helpful, but all I can say is “keep trying!!” There are people out there that can give wise counsel. Find them! Keep looking for that healthier solution. Be highly suspicious (as you are) of simplistic answers that lay all of the blame with you.
Again, I am very aware of how inadequate this forum is for some of the deep problems some women face. I wish I could be of more help, but I can’t. I don’t know you or your situation. These really are the problems that require solutions rooted in a local community.
I wish you much grace and peace.
It does however bring me great comfort to know that God often refers to his chosen people the Jewish people Daughter of Zion.
I thank everyone for this discussion. It has helped me in my personal walk with God.
To Ryan- Thanks for allowing this discussion on your blog.
Please consider this: If a leader/pastor of a community is blinded in a certain way (which being human, he is inevitably so, in one way or another), it is not only possible but also likely that he will misled the entire community toward this type of blindness.
If this blindness regards men being superior to women, then the women in the community have no one to go to for the truth.
Too often, this is the case.
I do not see harm in people sharing their stories over the internet. God is not limited by what means He can use to speak to people. Already, on your blog, people are helping each other understand the Bible and God’s true character.
Furthermore, He is not bound by time or distance, so we can always pray to God to help one another.
For everyone-
The world we live in is sinful, messy and can be extremely complicated. Sometimes, the only thing to do is pray. God is *always* listening.
If your prayers are not answered right away, keep praying and do not be discouraged because you do not know what is going on in the heavenly realms. Here’s an example of spiritual warfare for ya:
Daniel 10:12-13 “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.”
Thank you for the kind words, Pad. I agree, the internet can be a safe place to go, especially for those who do not have safe places to talk about these things in their local contexts. To whatever extent this blog has proved useful or helpful, I am thankful. My only concern is that people recognize the limitations of this medium.
I found this post very intrigueing, and I listened intently on all the conversations that followed.
I used to struggle strongly with the very same issues. I grew up around an abusive father and mother, and the only other men I knew were not the best people. I struggled strongly with being a woman, for I too felt htat God didn’t love me. My mothers behavior also hurt my view on mothers, and growing up I didn’t want to be a mother because of her. It did get to a point in which it pained be to even look at the bible, because it seemed to have been written to males only.
I did however get to a point in my life in which I met a wonderful man who changed my view on everything. It took me a while, I have to admit. At times I would put my fathers face on him, and get angry and mad at him for something he never did(but my father did). Luckily, he understood and knew who I was really angry at. He never yelled back, and simply told me he loved me.
I am currently starting to find my place as a woman of God. My passion has always been to be a scientist, and my man is supportive of me. I plan to get a PhD in science. =) My view of men have changed greatly, and I happy for that. And my view of being a mother has changed too. I want to be a working mommy, but I also want to be a number one mommy. lol. My man is willing to take on housework, and childcaring, and possibly a nanny so that I can work and still have children.
It is hard to be a woman these days. Expecially since the bible took place in a sexist time. God wasn’t sexist, but the people sometimes were.
If you have troubles with reading the bible that refers to both genders as men, there is a newer transation out that helps with it. A group of linquistics and church leaders came together to try and faithfully translate the bible so that it doesn’t use “man” unnesisarily. It is the HCSB translation. This way you can read the bible without feeling like God is only talking to the men but to you personally. =)
Thank you for sharing your story here, Rose. It is good to hear about your journey towards what sound like very healthy views of women, men, and God.
Thank you for these posts. I read each one with tears in my eyes. I ache for these women, and suffering women all over the world. I’ve stuggled with this too (and continue too at times). I have to remind myself almost daily that God loves me…and that humans have corrupted God’s design. Put the blame where it belongs – hate the enemy, don’t blame God. His design was perfect, and will be made perfect again.
Thanks for your comment, meleah. Like you, I have been deeply saddened to read some of the comments on this thread. But comments like yours (and others) also provide a sense of hope that healing and living into a better, more biblical understanding of who we are as women and men is possible.
I have always been a curious person, and because of this I do not always believe what I am told. There are some that will disagree with what I am going to say, and some that will finally begin a journey that will bring them closer to their father, God.
To start with after everything I have read and researched I truly believe that God does not hate women. The Bible can be very misleading, it contradicts itself in many places. Look at the first book Genesis, chapter 1 & 2. The creation of man. In Chapter 1 God creates the beasts first, then man and woman. In chapter 2 he creates Adam first then the beasts, then woman. In Chapter 1 God creates, “him; male and female He Created them.” In Chapter 2 he creates woman from Adams rib.
Because of these contradictions I began looking at different sources such as ancient text, like the Lost Gospel, writings of different religions and I looked for commonalities with the Bible. I found many. I also came to the conclusion that organized religions has polluted Gods messages. After all didn’t Jesus warn us to watch out for false teachers and prophets.
Speaking of Jesus, after I realized that some of, (not all of), the Bible might be man’s words I started focusing on what he had to say about us. Jesus never points out what women’s role should be, however, his encounters with women points out that he expects them to assume roles as equal partners with men. The book of John is a perfect example, (there are other sources that verify these transactions). There are three different incidents where he proves this. The first is Jesus and the Samaritan woman. In his time talking to a women, especially a Samaritan woman is unheard of. The conclusion to the story is he sends her out to be witness to her village, sort of a disciple wouldn’t you say? Second, Mary, Martha, and Lazarus. John names all three as objects of Jesus’ love, Mary and Martha are equal to Lazarus. Third, Mary Magdalene and the resurrection. He first appeared to her, a women. He did not appear first to Peter or John, he appeared to Mary. Remember that after all the men had abandoned him at his crucifixion the women stayed with him to the end.
After reading all of the above posts I cried. I am so sorry some of feel the way you do. But believe me God loves you. Maybe, just maybe it is humankind and/or Satan that has made you feel the way you do. DON’T LET THEM WIN. Also, Ryan God Bless you for everything you have said.
Thanks for sharing here, Malka. I appreciate your honesty and your obvious concern for those who struggle with unhealthy understandings of God and themselves. You are right, the Bible can seem to speak with a number of different voices. I think it is important to always remember that the words of Scripture were written and first heard/read in contexts very different from our own. It is our job, as modern readers and interpreters of Scripture, to do our best to first understand what the word of God would have been in its initial context and its initial literary form (i.e., is it poetry? narrative?) and only then move on to the question of what it means for us today.
Too often we treat the Bible as a flat book where every word is meant to be applied in exactly the same way (even though we do not and cannot apply this understanding of Scripture consistently). I think you have provided us with a good example of this in looking at the gospel accounts and seeing the significance of how Jesus treated women and the role women played in moving the gospel forward.
In refrence to Malka, there are no contradictions in the bible. When it seems that there are contradictions, usually it is a lack of understanding. One should ask God for wisdom and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you, rather then man and mens writings. For example the contradiction you mentioned in Genesis, is not a contradiction at all.
The writer is simply summing up all creation in chapter one from a long story to a short one. In chapter 2 of Genesis the writer, Moses, is further explaing in depth chapter one, on how man came to be and how he fell. Remember the Bible is a need to know basis. It basically, in Gods words, tells us how we came to be, how we fell, who God is, and why we need a saviour and how He saved us. I use to feel the same way about certain scriptures. To say that you can find information about God elsewhere, in my opinion, is false. For instance if I search the Bible to find out who God is and then go and search the Quaran on who God is, I would be left in confusion. For the Quaran teaches that God has no Son who died for us, while the Bible teaches us differently.
Yes Jesus did warns us about flase teachers. Yet He also warned us that He was “The Way, the Truth, and The Life. And that NOONE comes to the Father, except through Him”.
You are right. God loves women just as much as God loves men. For they both were made in His image. As well as Christ died for both out of love.
Be careful in searching other doctrines for information. It can lead you to a mind state far from God. I’ve seen it happen. If you lack wisdom or understanding, again ask of God who gives it freely. May God bless you and your life and the ones who come across.
In Love,
Your brother in Christ.
In reply to Matt. First you misunderstood me. During all of my research, which has spanned well over a decade, I was never trying to find out who God was, I know who God is. Simply, I have been searching for the truth behind man’s words. Also, your statement concerning your quote of what Jesus said is accurate, but that is not what I was discussing. I assure you I know who Jesus is.
I would however, like to return to the main topic, and I will ask you for a favor. Get out your Bible and read Genesis Chapter 1 verses 1-31. I am no scholar, but this chapter is a detailed explanation of creation. Now, read Chapter 2 verses 1-25. I want you to notice two things 1) Verse 7 is completely different then what is written in chapter 1, and 2) the chronological order is completely different. Chapter 1 states God created the beast first, then man, “God He created him: male and female He created them,” sound like they were created at the same time. In Chapter 2 God created man, then the beasts, then woman. Now read the chapters again, then read them again. Put everything that man has told you and taught you away, and use one of the greatest gifts God gave you, free will. Then read it again.
Also, Moses did write this book probably using words from Adam, Noah, and Seth, and most of it was written in Hebrew, with a little Aramaic thrown in. Here is the million dollar question, how many times has it been translated? The first translation began around 270 BC at which time it became Greek. How many times was it changed? How many times has things been added?
This is why so many woman ask, Does God love woman? Chapter 2 in Genesis has caused the death of thousands and thousands of woman over the millinium. Did you know during the Dark Ages the church fathers taking this chapter as law wanted to put woman after animals saying that because they were third in creation, after the beast they must not have souls. After much discussion they thought that this would not be a good ruling, because that would mean that man could not have sex with woman, because they are not suppose to have sex with animals. Go figure.
In closing Ryan you hit it right on the head, thanks for getting it.
Malka
2 Timothy 16 states “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” not meaning that the scripture itself is profitable to be corrected because it is inspired by God, God makes no mistakes. But its prfitable for reproof, correction and instruction for 2 Timothy 3:17 “that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work”. Again scripture confirms that God is the main aurthor behind His word in 2 Peter 1:20-21 “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit”.
We both agree that God is soverign right? Soverignty means complete authority; complete rule. If God is completely soverign, why do you think He would alllow His word to be in any error? Think about that for a second. Yes, I have read the Genesis chapters like you asked, i explained also why it is written like that too. But, even so let us run with your argument that it is in contradiction. Even if it said man came first, then beast, but then beast first, and then man, it makes no difference to the importance behind the Word. Which is that God sent His only Son to die for our sins so we could have forgivness. The writer, again, is merely recapping in chapter 2 how man came to be. Chapter 1 of Genesis is about how the world and everything in it was created, thats it significance. Chapter 2’s significance is on man, how he came to be, how he fell, and how he sinned.
As for scripture being rewritten countless times and that being the excuse to why you can’t trust in it whole heartidly, to me is a slap in the face to God. God, all powerful, and all knowing, having absoulte rule, would allow His word to be changed by man, so that people would be in error and a state of confusion, after all He did, gave up, and paid for us on that cross, is ridiculous to believe.
Im sorry to hear what MAN did with Gods word, using it back then and even today as we witness of this blog, to downgrade woman, again these are people who read His word without instruction, teaching, and guidence of the Holy Spirit. Countless prophecies have been recording over thousands of years and have come to pass to and still are coming to pass, through Gods Word. As old as it is, it is still very new and very much alive, even to this day.
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away”-Jesus Christ (Luke 21:33)
In love,
Your brother in Christ.
Matt:
Do you realize what you just did? Your attitude and statements are the reason there is a blog, “God Loves Women too right.”
This is my last post, to tell you the truth I probably will never even visit again, so I want to say this in closing.
When I read what Matt wrote, “slap in the face to God,” I was astonished, and I thought, “really, what nerve.” But as I contemplated and prayed about my reply out of no where the answer came to me, this is exactly what has been going on for thousands of years….a man denigrating a womans eforts to totally get closer to God and Jesus. After all didn’t Jesus say, “seek and you shall find.”
So, Matt keep up the good work, and ladies who are struggling start searching for your own answers. Maybe, theological literature is not right for you, but there are books, some found in the Old Testatment about women – Ester, Ruth, and Judith, as well as stories of Rebekah, Rahab, and Deborah. Deborah is an interesting story, here is a woman who led Israel to victory over the Canaanites. This women shows that a women can have a mind of her own, helping man, and standing up for what she believes in.
There is a lot of great information in the Bible, and please remember it is not what man thinks, it’s all about what God thinks. And God loves each and every one of us.
Oh one last thing, thank you Ryan I think you are a gift from God.
Good luck, and God Bless
Malka
Malka, my intentions were never to stop you from getting closer to God. In fact I encourage you, pray always and constantly seek His face.
I do not apologize for my comment. What you did was take my comment ” slap God in the face” and mis interpret what I was saying. In your first response you implied that their are contradictions in the Bible. That you also search other doctrines for the sense of getting closer to God. Stating in one sense or another that Gods word (the Bible) cannot be trusted whole hearditly. I implied, with that comment in the sense of meaning I feel as though it is offense to God, that His word, Him being the author, would be in any kind of error (contradiction, etc.).
I am sorry you took offense to that comment and felt I was degrading women. This will also be my last reply, to this indifference. God takes no favoritism and loves all equally.
I pray God shows you and anyone else, that His word is very much alive and it was given to men and women, whom God trusted with the Gospel through the Holy Spirit ( 1 These 2:4; 13).
May you know that I love you Malka, for we are all related in the Lord. I pray that God gives you peace and a strong and everlasting relationship with Him.
In love,
Your brother in Christ.
The bible is littered with passages that put to death feminine sovereignty, and importance.
For example
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 reads “For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man”
1 Timothy 2:11-15 “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control”
Leviticus 12:1-2 “Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days”
Leviticus 12:5 “But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her customary impurity, and she shall continue in the blood of her purification sixty-six days”
These are but a few verses in which women are viewed as nothing more than cattle, in my opinion. Nevertheless, if we were to disregard the verses entirely, and look solely at the stories, and characters in the Bible the question remains.
The feminine voice and point of view does not exist in the bible. The stories, laws, and principles are written in a masculine voice, and seen through masculine eyes. The feminine experience is nowhere to be found.
In Genesis, God came to Abraham and Abraham alone. Sarah was an afterthought, and was given information secondhand. We know nothing of how Sarah felt to be barren. To see Ismael born and raised, nor how she felt when she was taken to the Pharaoh’s palace in Egypt because Abraham was trying to protect himself.
The bible is written for men. It tells them how to live. Who to marry, how to marry, and what family life is supposed to look like. It explains to them the rules they are to follow, and how they are to rule their kingdoms.
But
It says nothing of how women should marry. Who should we look for? Who should we stay away from? How do we raise our children? What does it mean to be wife, or mother?
The experiences of the women in the bible are not included. How did the Virgin Mary feel to be giving birth to Jesus, then to lose him, her son, so brutally? Did she cry? What happened after she saw him leave?
If the bible is God’s words, then God has either failed women, or he hates women. Because nowhere in the pages can I find WHAT IT MEANS TO BE WOMAN!
What it means to be wife, or mother. What it means to be Queens, Presidents, or Prime Ministers. What it means to CEOs, Writers, Preachers, and Teachers.
If the bible is the spoken undeniable truth from God, then I feel deceived.
Sarah was not an afterthought. We are told of her experiences and her rivalry with Hagar, and when she told Abraham to cast Hagar and Ishmael out, God told Abraham to listen to her!
You can look up in Numbers when Zelophehad’s five daughters come to Moses and demand that they be given their share of their father’s property, even though he had no sons. God told Moses to listen to them, and that if a family has no sons, the property is to be passed on to their daughters.
Deborah is a wonderful example of a woman in power. Don’t listen to those who say, “Oh she was God’s last choice!” If she was, why didn’t her husband get the position that God, who is the wisest of all, appointed her to?
Abigail was the brains to David’s brawn. The Song of Solomon is all about female sexuality! Proverbs 31 is all about the virtuous wife.
You might also want to look up Ruth and Esther. They’re all about these two and their experiences.
Look at how Jesus treated women. Look in John 4 when he talks with the Samaritan woman. Not only is this the longest recorded conversation he had with any one person, but she was also the first person he revealed his identity to. How do you think the bleeding woman felt after years of being unclean? How do you think the adulterous woman felt when Jesus saved her from being stoned? Let’s not forget that although the male disciples were having a pity party for their master, it was the women who served him who stood by him at the cross. And when Jesus rises from the dead, he commands Mary Magdalene to go and tell his disciples that he is risen. Imagine that! A woman is the first person to deliver the good news!
Not only this, Paul commends Priscilla and Phoebe. He also commends a woman named Junia in Romans and calls her “Outstanding among the apostles!”
Trust me, I’ve struggled with these feelings too, but please read your Bible a little bit more. Believe me, Christianity has done more for women than any other religion.
Marie,
I won’t try to address all the issues you raise in your post. I do have a thought about how Mary may have felt when Jesus was torn from her life.
When Jesus at eight days of age was presented at the temple by Mary/Joseph the priest Simeon gave Mary a prophetic word that “a sword will pierce even your own soul” (Luke 2.35). Simeon’s word to Mary hints at the depth of a mother’s experience at losing a child.
As we are head towards Christmas I always like reading Mary’s song also called the Magnificat (Luke 1.46ff) which is styled after ancient Hebrew poetry. The poem gives us a glimpse into a young woman’s heart and life overflowing in her experience and love of God.
You may find the following website useful: Christians for Biblical Equality. There you can find articles which deal with some of the deep issues you raise in your post.
http://www.cbeinternational.org/?q=content/free-articles
Blessings
Marie, I won’t attempt to address every reference you’ve laid out here. Obviously, the Bible was written in a context where patriarchal views of women were the norm. But I think that Jesus consistently pushes against these views and dignifies women in a way that perhaps no one had before him (John 8:1-11 is just one example). The Bible may not have anything to specific to say about how to be a queen or a female prime minister (or a plumber or an electrician, for that matter), but it does have a lot to say about a God who breaks down barriers between people (including the barrier of gender) and leads people to freedom (e.g., Galatians 3:26-29).
I would encourage you to have a look at the excellent link provided by Larry above. I think CBE is a great place to start for those looking for a healthier (and more biblical) approach to questions on how God views women.
Hi, just want to say I have been struggling with the same issues about God and woman and men etc, but I do realize that one day, I will be standing in front of God, alone, without my husband to “protect” me or make excuses for me. I will not be able to use his attitude or behavior or that of other men in my world to justify why I have strayed from God and why I have decided to let go of Jesus’ hand.
Even if men tell you you are second class, or act as if you are, you should only listen to God and His word. Jesus died for all of us. God created all of us and each and every one of us, men and women, are responsible for her of his own spiritual health and growth.
Even if you are married (or not) you have to pray through Jesus to God, not through your husband who will then talk to Jesus etc. You have to take responsibility and control of your own spiritual life. People can be bullies and satan knows that. He uses them to influence your thoughts and keep you from the most important thing in the world – GOD!
Read your Bible (your sword against attacks), talk to God and forget about gender issues. God created you uniquely – a body, a soul and a spirit. Your husband or father or brother or boss or preacher or whomever are nowhere to be found in this unique combination and creation.
Just you = body, soul and spirit – to communicate and live to the glory of your Creator (God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit). Be proud of who you are. Do not let any one steal that away from you. I think woman especially should have a daily walk with God. Do not let your husband take over your and your family members responsibility towards this obligation. You will stand alone before God.
Matthew 22:36-40, 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Love God and love what he created – YOU! Be proud of his creation.
Thank you for sharing this, Jan.
The Bible instructs husbands to lay down their live’s for their wives, as Christ laid down his life for the church. This may have had something to do with the law of the land in those times, the women didn’t have any rights, and so men were needed to stand in that gap for them. just as we needed Jesus to stand in the gap for us.
My husband has not laid down his life for me. He puts my life in danger by repeatedly being unfaithful with multiple partners. He promises change, cries, goes to church, gets counseling, and when things finally calm down…he stops. He repeats the offense. he’s also gambled us out of a home, lost jobs, I’ve had to beg for welfare and food boxes, and I attend school so that I can provide for my family in the way my husband doesn’t someday.
I tried a seperation, and I believed this had impacted him to change. Unfortunately I was wrong. I’ve asked him to leave, and by Friday, I will be a single mother (although he will still be involved in their lives.)
Today I went to church, and I was so excited to be there and hoped to hear a message that would lift me up. To my dismay, it was the first part of a four part series called “Man Up”, and it said nothing for women, even took many verses that I believe (or atleast, I thought, I once believed were for the more general “mankind”) and attributed it just to men. He asked us all to bow our heads, close our eyes, and the men who wanted to recommit to the word should make eye contact with him. He then said, “Women, don’t peek. This is a man thing.”
It stung me. I also have been stung by some of the above mentioned bible verses. There I was, a woman sitting alone in the pew. I checked the board for womens groups, to fill in the gap, and only found more trips, seminars, and meetings for men. I felt neglected. I felt some self pity, and wondered if anybody had spoken to me, if I would reveal my pity party.
Atleast I did something right. I silently petitioned God, who knew how much I needed his word when I came. I looked around the church at all the people, so many of them, ofcourse every message couldn’t be about only me. God reminded me of my hope to be surrounded by positive, loving, male role models for my children, so they didn’t suffer the absense of a Godly father. How was God to provide this if he didn’t minister to the men around me?
Then in the parking lot, I felt a promise. God would meet with me. He knew my needs. If I could just hold on and have faith for the moment, He was planning to reveal to me my love and purpose. Not only as a woman, but as a woman without a man to lay down his life for me. God isn’t going to turn his back on me simply because there isn’t a man treating me the way God intended him to, in fact, God can operate in place of my husband.
I strongly feel now, as I’ve read all this, and I’ve cried to him, and listened for him, that even when God’s will isn’t met with the free will he has given his people, he can restore. My life isn’t going to be miserable forever because I chose the wrong husband, or because he didn’t choose God’s will. he can take my situation, even the ugly parts, and put it back together to be something more beautiful than what I thought it could ever be. He is the creator. He created all beautiful things. I cannot put a human limit on him.
Not only do we need to realize that there are people who misinterpret the Bible, and people who abuse the Bible, people are also sensitive because of the pains caused by these abuses and misinterpretations.
For example, my husband sleeping with other women has involved a group of friends who also act this way. To me, they see this as their “man thing” and I am not included… obviously. It is offensive, and traumatic, and with trauma comes triggers.
The statement “Women, don’t peek, this is a man thing.” was clearly a statement of allowing these men to make this commitment of their own will, with their own souls, not by the nudging of their wives (which I know we can often like to get over involved in their walk at times.) So they might feel comfortable to do this, and do it of their own free will. However, the sting in my heart was simply a “trigger”. I have been conditioned to see a “man’s thing” in which I am discluded from as painful, offensive, hurtful, I can’t trust it, it normally directly harms me, yet I don’t have worth enough to be any part of it.
I need to lean on the Lord for my healing, so that the enemy cannot twist his word, and turn me against my own church, because of the pains that were caused by evil.
Thank you for sharing this, Christina. A powerful testimony of faith in a God whose love is stronger and more reliable than so many of the human attempts we are familiari with. My prayer is that you will in the future experience grace, peace, and love to a much greater and more consistent degree than you have in the portion of your story that you shared here.
hey. I’m a 17 year old girl and I’ve been with my boyfriend for 9 months.
We are both chrisitian, I’m catholic, a branch off of it but still christian none the less.
Lately we have been having a lot of fights about God and The role of women.
He constantly during our discussions about it points out that women are meant to be submissive to their husbands, boyfriends, etc,
Everytime we argue he throws in my face That women were the first sinners just because of Eve, and therefore we are underneath men. I do not believe that at all, and I really would like a second opinion.
I don’t very much like being type-casted as stupid, weak, and naive just because she was the first to sin.
Not all women sin.
he also is under the belief that without men, we wouldn’t be here. True, we wouldn’t be, but without us they wouldn’t be here either. He keeps saying ‘We were here first.” Like men are that much more important then women.
That makes us EQUAL, But my boyfriend does not seem to be treating me like it.
Don’t get me wrong, I love him, But this has to stop. I am not the inferior sex,
and I’m tired of being in tears, feeling worthless, and Dealing with him trying to fix the issue he caused when he only makes it worse.
He has point blankly told me, to quote him, “still the woman is supposed to be submissive to her husband, not to where he controls her but well..We made the personal sacrifice so you could be here.”
I get that you did. But that was only the first man who sacrificed so eve could be here.
This does not apply to any men after that. I wish he’d get his self righteous head out of his butt. The WOMAN sacrificed so you can be here. So the guys the one that helps make the baby, but does he deliever it? No.
I would just like an opinion and some advice. I’m really tired of feeling worthless, and it seems every answer I look up is all sexist and makes me even madder.
What is the truth in this mystery? Are we really supposed to be submissive to our husbands?
Or should we be treated as the man is?
Thanks for sharing this—I can only imagine how painful some of these conversations must be.
I’m not sure how much I can add to what I have already said on this thread. If you haven’t already read them, I would refer to you to some of my previous comments above (here, here, here, and here). I think these comments are very relevant to you as well.
Be very careful about people who reduce you to tears and feelings of worthlessness based on the Bible. Jesus dignified women in a profound way throughout his ministry, so something has gone seriously wrong if you are feeling these things based on someone’s use of the Bible. The consistent witness of the NT is that we are to submit to one another, out of love (e.g., Ephesians 5:21). Christians are to be characterized by self-giving, never about trying to gain power or use it to keep people down. This is basic to what it means to follow Jesus, in my view.
I really hope you didn’t stay with that guy. You don’t need to be treated second class the rest of your life.
Wow, it’s amazing to me that a blog post written more than a year ago can resonate such a powerful message that it’s still being talked about. As a woman, I can totally relate to what most of these women have shared. Personally I spent many, many years as an atheist and only within the last several years or so started to even try to figure out whether or not there was a God. I’ve reached my conclusion. There is. Trying to figure out who that God is has been much more difficult. Contending with the rather sexitst nature of basically all different forms of religion has made the process that much harder for me. But I have to say that Christianity was the one religion that at least gave me hope for the idea that God doesn’t value men more than women because of simple things like elevating both men AND women to being equal in the sight of God and both being made in the image of God.
When I’ve read the Bible KJV and NSV I got to the parts about submitting and headship and it never struck me as being an eternal command for women to placed in a position of inferiority to men as “the way God wants it to be”. It struck me as Paul telling the Ephesians and the Corinthians how they needed to behave at the time so that the word of God would not be polluted by condemnations of the culture. In other words, at the time women were submitting to their husbands regularly, that was standard. What wasn’t standard was LOVE in relationships. I didn’t see Paul as saying that the way society had structured itself at the time was the only way it ever should be between men and women (and slaves and their masters, just to throw that in there for perspective) I don’t even think his focus was on the submission it was on HOW women should submit. Out of love. He wasn’t saying that for all of time, in order to be Godly women, you must always submit to your husbands. He was saying, so far as I can tell, that in order to be Godly women you must love your husbands and husbands must love their wives.
The point I think was that Paul didn’t want the Ephesian women and men and the Corinthian women and men to act in such a way that was completely disruptive and detrimental to the society that they were in at the time and the same rule applies today. Christians do the most good when they work on changing people’s hearts and minds not when they come crashing through culture like bulls in a China shop. Had he told the Corinthian women to immediately go for equal status and equal rights the societal response would’ve been to revolt to push back and to move away and that could’ve jeaporidized the message. He was saying “bring the message, but do so in a way that is at least considerate of the culture”. Why? So that the message could reach more people and do more good.
In today’s society we know so much more about how truly equal and equally capable women are to men than what was understood during the time of the Apostle’s. If you believe that God continues to work through us today and within our society and if you TRULY believe that God holds men and women at equal value than this change in culture would seem to be divine providence. Part of God working through us to really be able to reach our full potential. Considering these things I think it’s really sad that some men hold onto that word “submit” in the Bible and use it as a command to hold women in inferior positions (and, whether intended or not, at arms length from God). It’s getting better in this society but we still have such a long way to go.
Still, I can really appreciate the fact that there are men out there (Ryan and Matt) that are at least trying to understand all of this and how it feels and looks from the perspective of a woman. I honestly think that should give us women some hope, there are men out there who are trying. I wish more men would try to honestly look at these issues from a woman’s perspectives and honestly try to think how they would feel if the roles were reversed and the language was reversed and on top of that they had thousands of years worth of oppression working against them. I also think that women should try to be understanding to the situation men are in. Men haven’t had to deal with this since the dawn of civilization. Men don’t have to wonder if God was really thinking of them too and if God really gives a flying rat’s behind about them. They know, by the language used, that God loves them. For women, we’ve had to decode that message, if it’s in there at all, because it isn’t as obvious. So we really can’t expect that men would find it easy to relate. Impossible? No. But not easy either.
Thank you for sharing this—it is encouraging to hear a bit of your journey. I hope that some of the women who have written in this thread about some of the pain that they have experienced will be encouraged by it, and that new avenues for thinking about the nature of Scripture and the value of women will be opened to them.
I too am struggling with this. I am a woman and find that we as women are put down in every aspect of life. We as women even put each other down. I have prayed and asked God to show me evidence that He loves females as much as males. Maybe I am overlooking the answer. You men who are writing on this blog are trying to convince us that we are as important as men. But frankly, the scriptures seem to uplift the man and not the woman. We as women know all the terrible sins that men do and say to women all the time. I have tried to find scripture that would scold men about those sins, but cannot find them. Men are the ones who are given the leadership roles over women, but we know that the world is messed up because of the things men do as well.
Hi Minsi. Thank you for sharing here. Of course, you are right—men are given a good deal of power, and provide virtually endless examples of how to misuse and abuse it. I often wonder what the world would look like if there were more women running things :). I suspect things would look better, in many ways….
I can’t provide a comprehensive response to your questions here, but regarding evidence of how God feels about women, Galatians 3:28 is a good place to start, in my view. Christ abolished the distinctions that we so often use to divide and rank ourselves, and we are freed to live into this new reality of dignity and equality for all.
I wish you much grace and peace as you continue to wrestle with this issue.
I wonder if woman coming from Adams rib is just Gods way of balancing things out ,as in …we came from a man and we give birth to men (babies).
Also I agree that when the bible refers to man it means mankind.
Hello all!! Just like all the ladies on this blog, I too went through these emotions! One day (about 2 years ago) I decided that enough was enough! I was sick and tired of all the rediculing, verbal abuse and everything that automatically follows. I was so tired of listening to Pastors and their ideas of women and their roles in life. (They are the worst bigots of the lot!!)
The cherry on the cake, for me, was those stunning words the present Pope uttered! I quote.. Women may never preach in a church as they are ‘unclean’!!
That day I decided to empower myself a little and do a little ‘research’ of my own! I found out that when the first ‘written’ book was put together by a certain Pope Leo?, (in his devine wisdom), he decided what should and should not be published! There were books that were thrown out, manuscripts that were tampered with,and manuscripts that were written by women ignored! FACT! I personally would dearly love to read a bible text that was written from a woman’s perspective! This Pope had the Bible printed from a man’s point of view! I’m sure that he was ordered by the king of the time to do this!
Since then, I have also come to realise that Adam wasn’t the victim every one says he is. Why? Yes Eve did tempt him, however it was Adam who took the first bite and then what did the big hero do? HE POINTED AT EVE! Wow, a MAN among MEN. ADAM WAS THE FIRST TO SIN, NOT EVE!! It gets better!
Every single ‘catalysmic, catastrophic’ event that has ever happened on this planet, ie. civil wars, world wars, plagues, nuclear bomb, all the different RELIGIONS that we have today.. it wasn’t man….IT WAS MEN!!
Everything on this earth has an opposite… day/night, tall, short, sun/moon, male/female HARMONY.
This is certainly not the case with humans. Men are the strong ones. They are supposed to be the Protector.. to protect the (never weaker)softer ones. Women, being softer are the logical ones. The two are supposed to be One unit complimenting each other.. not one subservient to the other!
‘Oh, but the Bible says…’ The Bible was written by MALES!! So, sorry, that doesn’t wash with me anymore.
‘Follow the scriptures as a child would’?
God ‘created’ me, gave me the feelings and thoughts that I have!! I am not and never have been anyones ‘missing rib’!
I am ME! I was created to ‘serve’ GOD not men and since I came to these conclusions I walk ten foot tall and I dare any male to talk down to me! My children (boys)cringe when I get on my little soap box .. grin! A man is just as human as I am.. just built differently!!
Today, I LOVE being a Woman, I love the challange and I know that I’m loved by the ALMIGHTY!!
Ryan, a huge thank you for this site and God bless you!!
After re-reading my blog I realise that my letter smacks of ‘male-bashing’. It’s not meant to be!
I am speaking in general! I, too have been through the ‘Fires of hell’ and it’s a situation I, for one, do not care to repeat.
I, too asked these questions and in my search for answers I was introduced to my Angels….. I have seen them, I have heard them, I have smelt them, and I have felt them!! They are not to be worshipped. However, since meeting them, my life has done a complete 360 degree turnabout!
I was outside in the garden, feeling really sorry for myself and the world in general, when a voice, as loud and as clear as a bell, told me that (I quote) ‘You are a sinner’!! and ‘Trust and obey’.
Ladies, I want to tell you that when I heard them say this, for me, it was a case ‘ Instant Diarrhoea’.
I remember being so shocked that in reaction, I said to them ” Why are you shouting… I’m not deaf”. Since that day I have laughed with them, cried with them, got All the answers to every question that I have ever asked. Not a day goes by that we don’t chat about one thing or another!
They have also vehemently assured me that GOD loves me as he does all women…………………. “Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit the Earth”.
I’m by no means ‘meek’ but I needed to hear this to settle my own heart!! I am a Police woman and have been in situations that ….. well, I’ m still here!
With GOD’s permission, they guide me, help me and keep me safe! They also give me the ‘Right’ words of comfort for the truelly downtrodden and abused victims!!
They also give me the Right words for the criminal or abuser!
We are told that we have to turn the other cheek!! I agree, however, where does it say that it has to be MY cheek that I have to turn?? (Joke!)
Ladies, please don’t dispair!! I have come to the conclusion that we are put into these situations for a reason! I think it’s because GOD is showing us just how STRONG we women really are! I also know that there are millions of wonderful, beautiful men out there and IF IT’S MEANT TO BE……….he will either find you or you will find him.
Everyone has to go through a horrible crisis or event to find GOD!!
Whenever you are feeling down or sad……….. JUST LOOK UP!! You are always surrounded by Angels … just talk to them. You will be so amazed!!
GOD’s Love is SO great… I don’t think our human minds can absorb this!!!!
GOD bless us all.
For the record. In no way am I intending to insult or offend but rather to inform and assist.
From his own book, “Light of the World”, the following excerpt is attributed to Pope Benedict XVI,…Women
The formulation of John Paul II is very important: “The Church does not have in any way the faculty to confer priestly ordination on women.” It is not a matter of not wanting, but of not being able. The Lord has given a form to the Church with the Twelve and then with their succession, with the bishops and the presbyters (the priests). We were not the ones who created this form of the Church, but rather its essentiality comes from him. Following it is an act of obedience, and in the contemporary situation perhaps one of the most burdensome acts of obedience. But precisely this is important, that the Church show that it is not an arbitrary regime. We cannot do what we want. There is instead the Lord’s will for us, to which we adhere, even if this is wearisome and difficult in the culture and civilization of today. Besides, the functions entrusted to women in the Church are so great and significant that one cannot speak of discrimination. This would be the case if the priesthood were a sort of dominion, while on the contrary it must be complete service. If one looks at the history of the Church, one realizes that the significance of women – from Mary to Monica all the way to Mother Teresa – is so eminent that in many ways women define the face of the Church more than men do.
Hello Paul, and a wonderful day to you!
I read your blog with great interest, but still I come up against that preverbial brick wall. You spoke about Pope Benedict, a Catholic . Wasn’t it a Catholic Pope that put the first Bible together in the first place? A book published for Men by Men? That Bible should have been revised/corrected/updated many years ago! However, the Church will hang onto this very outdated version of the scriptures until times becomes a dot.
Why is it so impossible to ordain a woman? What faculty does the church need for this?? There is the faculty for nuns, but not for women priests?? As for this ‘Form’ given to the church…
when did this big event happen, and was it, perhaps, passed down to the church by ‘Word of Mouth’ or in a written format by another Priest/Pope (male)??
I have been taught that I must never, ever believe or do anything that I cannot prove.
I sit here before you and can say, with no doubt whatsoever, that I believe and worship Almighty God, our Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I cannot say that about the Catholic Church, in fact, about ANY church! Their mind sets are all identical.
When the Bible was printed those many years ago, there were only two great powers that ruled.
The King and the Pope. Both did anything/all in their quest for absolute domination of their subjects. That was the absolute logic of the day and is still true to this day! The other religions we encounter today are mostly a spin-off from the Catholic Church.
As far as I’m concerned and as an ex-catholic, this Church has a LOT to answer for!! For both past and present!!
Pope Benedict might have written about women, however it was the present Pope that referred to women as ‘ unclean’!! I so wish I was in his presence when he made this statement!
I probably would have reminded him that Jesus was carried and given birth to by one of these ‘unclean’ beasts, as was he !!! I would also have probably used two of my fingers around his general eye area! Then I would insist he practice a permanent ‘vow of silence’!!
Needless to say, I am now an ex-catholic with no intentions of ever going back!! I listen intently to my Angels and do as they instruct….. NEVER to a human again!!
Paul, the priesthood, in general, IS a Dominion or rather a Domination!!
“Not an Arbitrary Regime”?? Really?
“An act of Obedience”?? Really? To what?? Has to be the Church!!
Having said that I admit I have met a ‘few’ really amazing priests from all walks of life and if I had to describe them I would say that they are actually a gift from God in the form of earth angels!!
At this point I want to tell you that my grandfather’s youngest brother’s youngest son, stood together with this present Pope, for the title of ‘Pope’. It was believed that being a true ‘Son of Italy’ he would get the title… but alas it was not to be!!
I have never met him. When I was in Italy, to correct this situation, he was practicing his ‘vow of silence’ so that never happened!
Maybe that’s a good thing as I would probably have peppered him with all my questions and ideas. The poor man would, more then likely have taken another ‘Silence Vow’ just to get away from me. Grin!
I would be better being a disabled man instate of being a woman
Thanks for the generous greeting and comment, Miki. Likewise I hope the angels bless you with days of purpose and contentment. Sorry that I have taken so long to respond but I have had the flu for the past few days and haven’t been active on line.
I hope you find or have found Christ, in community. Irrespective of our legitimate concerns and criticisms of the faith(s), surely love, as imperfectly as we understand and apply it, is all about otherness. All about what we can do for one another. I sincerely hope there are others in your life whom you love and tend after. Likewise I hope there are others in your life who love and tend to you. It is in the joyful sharing of ourselves with others that we seem most fully alive and content.
My mother would be a big fan of yours. 🙂 She holds firm to the belief that a big part of the “Christian problem” is our failure to pray to the angel and saints. They are there to help us, it is their heavenly commission….use them or lose them, is one of her favourite expressions. 🙂
I can understand your frustration with the Church. For different reasons I too once left the faith. I too once felt it stifled my legitimate right to self expression. For me though, the time away was filled with great unhappiness. My outlook became quite jaded and cynical. I lost my sense of hope. I lost my faith in the primacy of love. So I went back. Funny thing about that is that the Church hasn’t changed. What I didn’t like about it before, is still the rule, and yet I take no offense. I accept unconditionally that the Church faithfully endevors to be the Kingdom on earth. However imperfectly, however burdensome it sometimes seems. Sacrifice is a fundamental Christian disposition. Blessings are always the outcome for those who defer personal accomplishment or gain for the Kingdom’s sake.
Besides in the sacrifice of the Mass, in the reception of the Holy Eucharist, I receive the very spiritual being and reality of our Lord Jesus Christ. In spite of the failures, real and perceived, within our Church, in spite of my own personal shortcomings, how could I ever, ever walk away from that?
His peace be with you always. 🙂
Can I just ask, for those Catholics and former Catholics speaking about the Bible here, you are referring to the Catholic Bible? For those who are concerned about things being lost in translation or being put together by one person, look to information on the Council of Nicea, the original translation of the original Arabic and Greek, the dead sea scrolls, and last but certainly not least, the context of what was being said and why. So many times scripture is misinterpreted because in our modern day times, we don’t understand why something was written a certain way. Such as when women were told to remain silent in church. It just made my blood boil when I drove by a church and saw on the marquee that quote with no context to explain it. From what I understand, Corinth, except in the temple, was a matriarchal society in many ways, many jews worshipped both God and idols, and in Corinth, Aprodite reigned. Women had not been allowed to learn the scriptures with the men in the Jewish church, and now because of Jesus, they were. So it would be natural for them to assume that they would lead in that area, as well. But how can babies in Christ be leaders? They were not permitted to speak out in the assemblies, not because they were thought to be inferior by God, but because they were not as learned in the Word, and as we all know, misinterpretation of scripture leads to a lot of pain and anguish.
Even though I know this forum hasn’t had a comment in a while, i was surprised that no one addressed the concern of why female children birthed made a woman unclean for twice as long as a boy. It was not because God considered them of less worth. After all, children were celebrated, and while sex makes a man unclean, it is also celebrated by God. So what was the big reason? It was because for at least one month after a girl child’s birth, estrogen from mother’s milk causes her to have vaginal secretions. This does not happen with a boy. It was also thought that this would help a family to bond more with the girl child since they were valued less (man’s value, not God’s), thus hopefully raising the girl in her family’s estimation. Oh sure, we can pick apart scripture and show how many parts seem to be horrible to women, but in reality, it had become the law of the land only because Adam and Eve fell for the scheme of Satan, and boy does Satan hate women. He used to be the beauty. Now she is, and he can’t stand that, so he makes sure to attack her as much as he can, and he does all he can to make sure that men will hurt women as much as he can influence them to do so.
One last thing, God made man for himself, and he made woman for man, not to be suboordinate to him, but to uphold him. In the original word used was ezer, translated as lifesaver. Adam needed someone who could walk beside him and be a strength to lean on when his life was in danger. You don’t need a lifesaver for a couch potato lifestyle. Eve was not just created to be a plaything. She was made to be a counterpart, a female compliment that was strong where he was weak, just as he was strong where she was weak, because we are all strongest when we are not alone.
LOL I’m going to be so glad when we’re all in heaven and we aren’t married or have physical genders. HAH Can’t wait for that day to come. May God richly bless ALL of you ❤
Hey thanks for comenting this it made me cry but in a good way I always felt like everyone including God thought woman were worthless every guy in middle school makes fun of us for stupid things that arent even there buisness it makes. E feel worthless and discusting.
At 17, I was forced to attend church by my parents. They weren’t overly religious, but went to church every Sunday. I knew that once I became an adult, I would not continue with christianity. Any way, that day 30 years ago, the priest was reading from the bible. He read “wives, be submissive to your husbands”. I was never the same. After I became an adult, I did not continue with christianity. I felt that the god of christianity and the bible just wanted to make a slave of me. After that moment, I felt of men as the enemy. They wanted to dominate, become my “head”. I was almost 18-almost free-why would I ever want to get married. After that fateful day, I began to hate men. Oh, I hid it in the workplace and parties, and bars. I drank a lot to feel normal towards them. True to my word, I have never gotten married, or even had a serious relationship. If I ever started to like someone, I would read those horrible submissive verses, and I would run the other way. Even more disturbing, I began to hate myself with a passion. Why would god want me to become a slave? So, even though I rejected christianity, I could not reject the hatred that christianity made me feel. My thoughts of marriage as slavery were embedded in my mind on that day 30 years ago. I still believe in God, just not the god of the bible and christianity. That day ruined my life-it’ my fault-I let it. I know that the bible and christianity are poison to me, but why can’t I get over those feelings of worthlessness and inferiory that christianity caused me to feel? Why can’t I just let it go? Why did those words cause me to hate so much, when I have rejected the source of those words? Our minds and memories are powerful things. Sometimes I wish I would get dementia, just so I wouldn’t remember those horrible words. Isn’t that sad-wishing you would get brain damage so you wouldn’t remember a few words in the bible (even though I found out more distusting things said about women in said bible)? I would never think of entering a church, but those words are always entering my mind. Maybe with some counseling, I can repair my damaged life.
I am very sorry to hear about your experience, Linda. I hope that your future will include life-giving rather than life-destroying people and voices and much love rather than hate.
hi i came across your article when trying to find an answer to something i found in the Bible that bothered me. its the verses in 1 Corinthians that talk about women not being allowed to talk in church. this bothered me because while i am shy i also love discussing things with others about topics that interest me like the Bible. and even if this verse only applies to married women like some say i still feel its unfair to married women (even if im not married) yet i know i have to be seeing things wrong cause God is always fair, he’s never unjust but that doesn’t mean i can’t have trouble understanding things sometimes. but i am not sure if these verses apply to all women or just married women but it makes me unsure now whether i want to go to church or not. then there are the other verses which seem to portray women as less than men, making me want to never marry, of course i never did have much desire to marry anyways and i have never even dated (I’m 20) and i am fine with that for the most part.
then there is the verses that say a women must never prophesy unless she covers her head, a women must never have leadership or public speaking role in the church. i can live with that last part since i have a fear of speaking in public, at least in front of a lot of people. i don’t have the gift of prophecy either so the first part isn’t relevant to me, but it still makes me feel God values men more.
i think i should know better since there were many times when God has showed he values women just as much as men, and then there are women like Esther, Ruth and Mary who are mentioned in the Bible as important. still i think its the verses about women having to be silent in church that bothers me. i know the purpose of church is to learn about God and to fellowship with other Christians, but how can one fellowship with others without talking at all? i just don’t get it.
oh and just so its easier to look up the verses i am concerned with are 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Hi Summer,
I think the best place to start on questions like this is with the context. Paul was writing a letter to a specific church (and a very unruly and stubborn church at that!) with specific issues. As I understand it, there were a group of women in the church who were being disruptive, interrupting worship, and exercising their newfound freedom in Christ in some fairly unhelpful ways. In my view, some of Paul’s instructions re: the role of women in the church were specific instructions to the church in Corinth and ought not to be taken as a universal pronouncement on women in worship for all times and all places.
As you say in your comment, there are plenty of examples throughout Scripture of influential women who obviously vigorously participated in the life of their community. And of course, it’s always important to begin and end with Jesus. How did Jesus treat women? Did he elevate or restrict them? Honour or silence them? Interpreting different parts of the Bible can be a very complex thing, but often an examination of the pattern of Jesus can clarify, sharpen, and perhaps even reorient how we look at this or that specific issue.
There’s obviously lots more that could be said, but’s where I would start. I encourage you to keep speaking! Don’t be silent and keep asking questions! And maintain your conviction that God is fair and good as you do.
This has been an interesting topic to read. I am a young woman who also feels this way. I was sexually assaulted by a non Christian man, and ever since have been very wary of men in general. I have tried dating Christian men since this experience but I am overall very affected and I probably don’t give them enough of a chance because I am too wary and scared. Overall, most men scare me, and when I come across Christian material that makes me feel inferior, it makes me feel even worse 😦 I don’t want to be a woman who has to submit to a mans every needs, especially to submit to a man’s sexual needs (which probably extends from my bad past experience). Even if I am to meet a man I love and he becomes my husband, I am scared about having to submit to his sexual needs. It scares me.
I’m so sorry to hear of your experience, Krissy. It is so tragically sad and wrong that your experience with men has led to feelings of fear rather than a sense that you are honoured and valuable for who you were created to be.
Hey ladies, I’m only 15 years old but I completely feel the same way. I can’t believe there are people just like me are going through the same problem! Everything that all you ladies said was EXACTLY how I felt and still feel. I feel so much better knowing I’m not alone. I started feeling this way when I began to read the bible and I noticed very sexist things like “women submit yourselves to men” and “Women are not allowed to talk in church”. These little phrases in the bible made me very depressed and caused me to doubt God and lose faith in him because I thought that he thinks I’m less than a man anyway so what’s the point of believing in him. I kind of got over the “submit yourselves to men” thing because I know that it was written years ago and the same rules don’t apply in today’s world because women get to go out to work like men and have the same opportunities (well almost). But what really bothers me is that I feel that every man, no matter how religious, non-religious, good, or evil they are, will always think that they are a little better than women, even though they might not show it. I don’t know maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think it’s my fault because everyday I see the way my father talks to my mother saying foolish things like “Oh please, you’re a woman.” Like being a woman is embarrassing?!? But the weirdest thing is that my mother works so hard and gets up at 3 am every day to cook, clean, and work in the yard, while my father just has one job and when he comes home all he does is watch TV until he falls asleep and he always has fresh dinner prepared for him every day by my mom. My father also forces my mom to work on the house like repair it because he is too lazy, even if it is his job. My mother once told me that when she was pregnant with my older sister, my father forced her to paint the whole house! I always ask my mother, “How much longer will you let him treat you like this,” but my mother always says, “Until God tells me that I have suffered enough.” My brother even dogs my mom around, always wanting her to make his lunch even though he just has to put the stupid food in the microwave! I mean come on how lazy can you get! My mother really is an amazing woman and a great role model, but when I grow up I definitely don’t want to suffer like she is because I know that I don’t have to and neither does she or any women who are going through the same thing she is going through. I just really wish that men saw women as complete equals and never thought they were better, or that they are supposed to treat women like worthless dogs, but society will not allow that. I just wish that we could all be like children and not notice any difference between gender. Then life will be better and women would not have to feel uncomfortable or belittled. One time I watched this preacher on a Christian channel and he said that our souls are really who we truly are and that our bodies are just our shells. That opened my mind because what I realized is that men treat women badly or less because of their physical appearance, but if we were all just souls with no “shell”, then we would all be completely the same. Sorry I wrote a lot I just wanted to share my feelings with all of you really amazing and beautiful women because you all seem to feel the same way I feel. I am going to try to stop feeling this way so can you all please try to stop too? You are all incredible and wonderful women and I really hope you try to ignore all these negative feelings and just believe that God is the only one who truly loves you and will NEVER think that you are less than any man.
Thank you for sharing this, Selena. It saddens me greatly to read of how your father treats your mother. You are 100% correct—this behaviour is unambiguously wrong and completely contradictory to the example of Jesus Christ in Scripture. I hope and pray for better things for your family (your mother, in particular) and that you will not allow the bad examples you have seen to squelch your convictions about equality and truth. Your last sentence says it beautifully: “God is the only one who truly loves you [or any of us] and will NEVER think that you are less than any man.”
Amen.
Thank you Ryan! You really are a beautiful and understanding person! God bless you. 🙂
Hi Ryan, Thanks so much for encouraging this conversation!
A couple of thoughts:
– I find it bizarre, and painful, that in Cristian culture we are willing to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, work for justice in the world- for the most part because we believe in resurrection life:that Jesus work on the cross made a difference, empowering us to be transformed from the inside out- and giving us access to Grace- for good works… but in the area of male/female relations, we seem to prefer ‘unbelief’.
What’s happened between men and women came at the fall.
Why do we seem powerless over it? (Generally speaking) I suspect that is because like any sin that serves us somehow , we want to keep it around.
(Greed that manifests itself as Consumerism might be another example of a ‘useful’ sin we wink at)
We pray for the sick with Faith, but on that same day, we might find ourselves saying over coffee: “Boys will be boys, and girls will be girls”
The enemy of our souls seeks to employ us to do his will- to segregate women from men, and men from women-by distorting our views of one another. Just as he delights in keeping us from union with God (via false imagery), he also loves to keep us from one another- but he needs our help to do that.
– Also, Jesus is perfect theology. While searching the scriptures to see what’s there regarding women etc… Jesus command to love God and love people has to be the template- the test.
If what I ‘understand’ from scripture doesn’t look like Jesus- what I understand is wrong.
Thanks for listening lol! :0)
Thanks for your comments—I couldn’t agree more! I especially love this line:
Amen. Jesus steers history in a new direction. Away from patriarchy, and toward a new reality where there old divisions and oppressive power structures must give way.
PS ‘Cristian’ should read Christian- ha! I wasn’t trying to be clever- it really is just a typo 🙂
Reblogged this on Conversations and commented:
Hi Ryan, Thanks so much for encouraging this conversation!
A couple of thoughts:
– I find it bizarre, and painful, that in Cristian culture we are willing to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, work for justice in the world- for the most part because we believe in resurrection life:that Jesus work on the cross made a difference, empowering us to be transformed from the inside out- and giving us access to Grace- for good works… but in the area of male/female relations, we seem to prefer ‘unbelief’.
What’s happened between men and women came at the fall.
Why do we seem powerless over it? (Generally speaking) I suspect that is because like any sin that serves us somehow , we want to keep it around.
(Greed that manifests itself as Consumerism might be another example of a ‘useful’ sin we wink at)
We pray for the sick with Faith, but on that same day, we might find ourselves saying over coffee: “Boys will be boys, and girls will be girls”
The enemy of our souls seeks to employ us to do his will- to segregate women from men, and men from women-by distorting our views of one another. Just as he delights in keeping us from union with God (via false imagery), he also loves to keep us from one another- but he needs our help to do that.
– Also, Jesus is perfect theology. While searching the scriptures to see what’s there regarding women etc… Jesus command to love God and love people has to be the template- the test.
If what I ‘understand’ from scripture doesn’t look like Jesus- what I understand is wrong.
Thanks for listening lol! :0)
Hell o again 🙂
This was so good, I had to re-blog…
Thanks!
Oh man, thank you so much for this blog. I have been brought up as a Christian girl with some great men around me and yet I felt more like God had given us the short straw from the beginning. I mean, we suffer more than men physically and they get more pleasure physically. It doesn’t seem fair and I’m still not sure why this is & it bothers me. I often feel like we were created for man’s pleasure and our suffering. But on top of that I would read the Bible in the hope of resolving this conflict only to see the discrimination and mistreatment of women & on top of that satan hates us & many men use & abuse us & then we feel that God hates us too! It’s a heavy load to carry. I don’t want to be angry with God and question His reasons why but I still struggle with it.
The main points I have got out of these posts which have put my mind at some rest is God’s instructions how men are to treat their wives as Christ loved the Church & the examples of how Jesus treated women. And Caffeinated Mystic I will be repeating your words over and over until I am convicted “if what I understand from scripture doesn’t look like Jesus – what I understand is wrong”.
If we women still feel like this today in our western-world, which has in many ways liberated women, I cringe to imagine how most of the women throughout history, before Jesus and in many countries around the world where they are still viewed and treated as objects to be owned must feel. This feeling of being less valuable just because you were born female is almost unbearable & I weep when I think of these suffering women. I hope that our just God will one day reveal to all women ever born how much they are loved and valued and heal this deep deep physical, spiritual and emotional pain. I need to believe that He is love and is just.
I want to share this message with the world but I first need to believe it & be convinced myself.
I know God has a call on my life as I’m sure all women do and that satan is using this weapon of inferiority & being less-valuable and less-loved to distract us and hinder us from our call. Imagine the mighty force we would be for God’s kingdom if women actually knew and believed they were equally loved, called & valued?! I need to pray. I want to know God’s love for me.
Thank you for your comment, Nikko. I hope and pray that you will continue to grow into a deeply rooted sense of your identity and worth as a woman, and that you will share this conviction with others as well.
Peace to you.
I highly recommend this teaching by Kris Valloton, Jesus- The Founder of the Women’s Liberation Movement. If you can get a chance to listen to it you will see that it was never God’s plan to oppress women. Jesus was radically against the culture when it came to women. He included them, loved them and valued them like no one had before.
http://store.ibethel.org/p6916/jesus-the-founder-of-the-womens-liberation-movement-11-00am-twin-view-december-02-2012
I am so glad that I found this site, because recently I read from this so called Christian women’s site, that tells women the correct way to be with their husbands. The woman who owns the site, talks so demeaning and cruel to women, it was so strange. When her method of talking to women was questioned, she said that her husband’s site talked to men about their sins. I visited the husband’s site, and guess what, He also scolded women. I was so frustrated and had stop reading on that site, because I had begun to question if women are important to God. I was beginning to question my faith and I don’t want to do that. I still fel hurt and betrayed, like what is the importance of women, if we are to be put down and demeaned.
Then I told myself, that this couple may not be of God, but of satan, otherwise why would the male site not direct men, but spend its time demeaning the women.
Women need some loving word from someone, somewhere in this world, that does not demean, blame, nor scold them. Is it possible to find someone like that?
I have not found one that truly does that. I am so disgusted and frustrated and I am a grown woman, so I know that young girls will really be confused about our roles.
God, please help women. We feel so let down and demeaned.
Thanks, Jean
If what you are reading is cruel and demeaning to women, it is not in any way “of God.” Period.
Whatever else anyone might want to say or feel they need to say about gender roles, it must, at the very least, begin with Christ’s clear command to love others as we would love ourselves. If what they say does not pass this basic test, it can, in my view, quite safely be written off.
Hi Jean, I had a battle with this issue for a while whether God actually loved women as much as men. If we were as valuable etc and if we were just made to be objects to be used and abused as so many women all around the world or centuries have been lead to believe.
I finally looked at how God viewed and treated His bride, the church and how Jesus treated women when he was on earth. They are the only examples we can go by as to how God intended for women to be valued and treated.
Jesus also broke all the rules in a culture that didn’t talk to women in public or teach women or mention women if they were present. Even the early church had to learn a new way and was actually quite radical when it came to seeing women as equal.
I think women were actually supposed to get the better end of the deal in my opinion. The bride gets everything he has, he elevates her, treasures her, provides for her, blesses her, she finds unconditional love, grace and safety in his arms, he sees her as faultless and adores her. He even dies for her. And what do we do? We love Him because He first loved us! This is God’s example to us of how a bride should be valued by her husband! Valuable? Loved? I think so!
Thanks so much for this post, Ryan. I know I’m years late, but it (and so many of the inspiring comments on here) have really encouraged me. A few months ago, I went through a period of intense struggle with whether or not God values women just as he does men. I wanted to believe that he was a God who lovingly looks upon all of us equally as his children. When I gave my life to God almost a year ago, I was filled with such a fire for him and his will that I regularly and eagerly prayed that he would show me how I can use my abilities for his purposes. I have such a desire for him to use me to “bear fruit” for his Kingdom. But when I first read Paul’s words about women having to be “silent” in church meetings because it’s “shameful for them to speak and have authority over men”, I felt belittled and upset, and quite restricted about what I can actually “do” as a disciple. It was just a bit of a shock to the system, especially his choice of words. I thought, “Well, how big is the limit then? Does that mean women can’t witness through teaching and writing as well?” I have a love and talent for writing, and tend to write articles about God in my free time, so I often assume that God may use this in the future. I also love to think about different ways to witness. When talking to others about God, I sometimes naturally slip into a “teacher” role, and almost every time I go to God in prayer I ask him to help me to be bold enough to talk to people about him. Paul’s words make me think that I may be wrong in doing these things though. I do them out of passion for God and his purposes. I can’t say that the thought of women not being permitted to do any of these things doesn’t make me feel inferior and hurt.
I am slowly coming to terms with factors such as the context of these writings, and the particular audience Paul was writing to. I also remember that he praised the deacon Phoebe for tending to the needs of many people, and his praise of Junia as “outstanding among the apostles”. The worry of potentially going against God’s will for my life as a woman still rears its head every now and again though. A lot of the time I’m not really sure what to think about the ways women can serve. There are a range of opinions and scripture interpretations.
It really encourages me to remember the ways Jesus liberated women and showed his love for them though, like the privilege he gave to the Samaritan woman at the well, and how he first commissioned Mary to go and tell the disciples of the Good News. One of the most incredible insights into the depth of his love for women was his treatment of the bleeding woman who touched the hem of his cloak and was healed. She would have been considered permanently “unclean”, but rather than rebuking her for touching him while “unclean”, Jesus endearingly referred to her as “daughter”, and told her, “Your faith has made you well. Go in peace”. You can imagine the affection in his voice as he said these words to her. What’s also amazing is the fact that he called her “daughter”, which indicates that he saw her as one of his own; part of his family. I think it’s a great reminder for all women that we are daughters of God, and that he loves us as such. A loving father’s heart melts with unconditional love when he looks at his daughter. She’s “precious” in his eyes. There’s no reason why this wouldn’t be the case for God, who is so much more good and loving than we can imagine.
Thank you for this, Holly. I appreciate hearing a bit of your experience, both on a personal level, as well as some of your experience wrestling with the biblical texts. You have rightly identified a number of important passages and themes in Scripture that point to how God who is, as you say, “more good and loving than we can imagine.”
I wish you much grace and peace for the journey.
I just found this blog. And yes I have also felt all those feelings like every other post. It was confusing to me because once I gave my life to Christ and received the Holy Spirit I thought how can I feel not worthy and less than a man because of certain biblical passages and the way some Churches treat the female parishoners. After all I have the Holy Spirit living inside of me. This is something I struggle with too and the devil is more than happy to remind us women that a lot of men don’t see us as equal or God forbid God doesn’t. But then I think wait a minute God gave me the Holy Spirit so that has to be from the devil. Okay now for the adam and eve passages. To me they just don’t make any sense. Why would an all knowing God put adam in charge of eve, he was the one who made the decision to eat the apple. So what, God is going to put in charge the person that couldn’t make the right decision. See, doesn’t make sense. I felt guilty subconsciously for eve’s part for a long time. But not anymore I had an epiphany about those events and here is how it goes. We had to fall from grace that was already predetermined I believe. Because God made us and he gave us freewill, that is freewill to choose him back. To Love him back. Think about it when you have a child you don’t want it to just be respectful and obey you, you want them to Love you back. It can only be a sincere, real Love only if it is given freely. Okay two more things I suggest reading the new book from President Jimmy Carter about women and religion and violence. Great information for both Women and Men. Also I believe in the quote ( sorry don’t know who said it) but it goes. “Power should only be given to those who want it least”. Cool ha? Thanks for your time and Thank You Ryan for your encouraging posts. God bless all you Women. God truly Loves you sooooo much don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Thank you for your comment, Di. I pray that you would continue to grow in these convictions about the value and worth of all women.
I don’t know if anybody is using this site anymore but I don’t do facebook, anyway for all those out there feeling left out of the Bible and God’s Love I suggest listening to Kris Vallotton’s sermon entitled Jesus The Founder Of The Women’s Liberation Movement. Excellent info you have never heard in any church. And it is all Biblical. You can find him on YouTube. Ryan, I don’t know if you have another format to reach those hurting I am not that good with computers. Thank You, Di
Thank you for this recommendation, Diana. Peace to you.
I found this post and the comments section about a month ago, when I really needed them. It’s still too painful for me to write much, but I just wanted to thank people above; I believe God sent us all here. And when I actually prayed directly to him, rather than turning to others, He answered me with love.
Thank you for sharing this, Bess.
I’ve sat here for a very long time reading some responses from many women. It’s very alarming how there’s a lot of this mindset going on and even more alarming that there surely IS many more women who feel this way then we hear or see.
The thing is, I’ve been battling this myself for a good 4 to 5 years. When my mind races, it goes beyond the forbidden territories that God doesn’t even want our minds in. For example
1) Why is God male? Or why does He always depict Himself as “He”, “Him”, “Father” etc? Why can’t God just be neither “he” or “she”? Why made him want to choose to be known as ‘Father’?
2) Why is Jesus male as well?
3) Why do all the angels in the bible appear as male?
4) Why did Jesus choose MALE disciples? And sure, there were many women that followed him and stayed faithful to him until the end. But still. Why not at least one female disciple?
5) Why did God use mostly men that had some terrific roles? Moses? David? Abraham? Paul? Noah?
6) Why was Adam made first? Why couldn’t they be created at the same time? To wake up beside each other at the same time?
7) Why was Lucifer male? It’s said that he was a pretty special angel with special roles.
8) Why exactly did women have to be made physically weaker? And not that I’m trying to be rude, but I think it’s safe to say that women are attacked and killed mostly by men. So, there goes defending ourselves. ‘Well, nice going, God. Thanks!’ Is sometimes what I think.
As always, it seems women are last. Why?
Today in church, I was severely emotionally damaged. My pastor is a GREAT man and he had a great message, but my mind was too busy spinning in poison over and over until I had to wake myself up. The good news is I am slowly coming out of this becuase the responses here have REALLY created a tremendous change in progress for myself. Thank you so much for this page!
Sorry about the grammar mistakes. :p
Thanks for sharing here, Darian. I am very glad that this thread has been helpful for you on your journey.
The only thing I would say in response to your questions about why Scripture and its presentation of God seems so male-dominated is to say that, for whatever reason, God chose to disclose and important part of Godself and the narrative we are all a part of in a patriarchal time and place. So we probably shouldn’t be surprised to see so much male-ness in the story. But we should also be very careful to pay attention to the way in which Jesus pushed the story in a different direction by honouring, elevating, and dignifying women. In that time and place, this would have been scandalous. We should always pay the most careful attention to Jesus and his mode of being in the world, which is the fulfillment of Scripture and the fullest and most accurate portrayal of God that we have.
(Oh, and don’t worry about the grammar!)
Hi Darian…. Just wanted to share with you and all of the other ladies the revelation that Jesus gave me concerning these things. Firstly, satan will try to use the state of our minds while we are studying the Word of God to poison us with his lies. Our perspective colors the way we see things ( much like tinted glasses) so everything that we see while we are looking through those glasses will be tinted and tainted!
For example, if our glasses are tinted with God loves women less, then everything we see will seem to line up with that. In Numbers 5:11-31, there is a law put in place by God that if a man even suspects his wife of being unfaithful to him, that he is to bring her before a priest and have her drink water which if she is guilty will bring a curse upon her. Now through the God loves women less tint, it would be easy to see this as completely unfair to women to have to go through all of this publicly just because they have jealous husbands.
But!! When we are looking through glasses tinted with the truth of God’s Word- the specific truth that He loves each and every one of us (men and women!) so much that He took on flesh and died for us even while we were yet sinners… it looks completely different.
During this day and age, women did not have many rights and did not have anyone to stand up for them in situations such as these. So God in His mercy and out of His tremendous love for women set up a practice where He would be the One to make the final decision on whether a woman was guilty of adultery or not, not an irrational, jealous husband.
There is a reason that God implores us to continually renew our minds with His Word… it is a piece of our armor that we need to defeat the attacks of the enemy on our minds. The enemy doesn’t want us to feel loved by God because he knows that there is power in that position of intimately understanding that we are Beloved Daughters of God!!! And that God loves us every bit as much as He loves His Sons. To address a few of your questions of why does God depict himself as male, etc… the revelation that I get on this is that since women and men are created in the image of God, that tells us that characteristics of each gender give us the total picture of God. For example in the male gender, we see God’s strength, power and authority and in the female gender we see God’s nurturing and compassionate nature. It makes sense to me that an All powerful God would want to be identified with the powerful side of His nature, so people don’t get it twisted = ) It is in our human nature to take kindness for weakness, so Him identifying Himself as Father instead of Mother, I believe He is doing for our sakes to help people to keep His power and authority in mind. For your inquiry as to why Jesus did not have any female disciples, I offer Luke 10:1. In this scripture it says that Jesus appointed another seventy disciples… it did not say another seventy men, For all we know some of that seventy could have been female. As to why Adam and Eve couldn’t have awakened side by side… By God creating Adam first, He enabled the first true family line, as Adam said, Flesh of my flesh and Bone of my bone. If He had created them both separately that would not have been the case. And out of all the roles that men have held, Moses, David, etc.. I can’t think of one that would be of more importance than carrying and raising our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the way Mary did! Hope this helps.
My advice is to search out as many scriptures as you can on God’s love and meditate on them continually. I will share some that have blessed me. (The notes in parentheses are my own thoughts)
Genesis 1: 27+31
God created man in His own image; male and female He created them. (Women are created in the image of God just like men are!!!)
And God saw everything that He had made and behold it was VERY GOOD. (That includes you ladies!!!)
Luke 1: 26-28
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that are HIGHLY FAVORED, THE LORD IS WITH THEE:.. (Does this sound as if the angel is speaking to someone that God doesn’t love or cherish? So whenever the enemy tries to deceive you with his lies, remember THE LORD IS WITH THEE ladies!!!)
John 8:4-5, 7, 10-11
They say unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses commanded us, that such should be stoned (funny how they conveniently leave out the part of the law where the man and the woman are to be put to death): but what sayest thou?
So when they continued asking him, He lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
When Jesus had lifted himself up, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee; go and sin no more. (Jesus protected this woman from being stoned because He LOVED her.. that is one of the defining characteristics of love… it protects)
Luke &: 11-15
Now when He came nigh to the gate of the city, behold there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. And when the Lord saw her, He had compassion on her, and said unto her, weep not. And He came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise. And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak and He delivered him to his mother. (Jesus raised this woman’s son from the dead because he was moved by compassion for her… Jesus cares about how women feel too!!!)
Exodus 22: 22-24
Ye shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in anyway, and they cry out at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; And my wrath shall wax hot and I will kill you with the sword; (The term widow in that day and age was reserved only for women whom husbands had died… God cares if women are mistreated!!!)
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel (this does not mean less intelligent, etc… but specifically that we are physically weaker so a man should not be using his strength advantage to abuse us physically or to have us doing heavy lifting, etc for which our bodies were not built. Vessel is used many times in the bible to describe the human body) and AND AS BEING HEIRS TOGETHER OF THE GRACE OF LIFE; THAT YOUR PRAYERS BE NOT HINDERED. (This scripture tells us that if a man mistreats his wife that it will hinder his prayers…. does that sound as if God loves women less? NO!!!)
God bless each and everyone woman searching for God’s truth… and God bless you Ryan for starting this Blog.
Timo
Thank you so much for sharing this Timo! you have put it so well and logically and it is really encouraging! It is so true that you interpret things through the ‘glasses’ you wear. Now when I read scripture or have issues with the position, role, bodily makeup and function of the female body I try to understand it through the knowledge that God loves women and I can see clearly that He does. Every unique thing about women was supposed to be a blessing and a privilege. Unfortunately, mankind has perverted, oppressed and neglected what God meant for our good. I wish that all men used their God-given positions and strength to be good leaders, heroes, providers and protectors.
I feel so honoured that as a women with a Godly man I get to be cherished, protected, provided for and adored by my husband (as Christ loved the church). That I get to bring forth life from my womb – that’s amazing! And I get make my house a home. I love that I am my husband’s help-mate, his encourager and comforter (alongside Him and the Holy Spirit) and that I help Him to lead well. I have come to be grateful that God made me a women, it’s such a privilege! Women are fearfully and wonderfully made! I wish that all women were free to be the amazing, cherished, life-giving, bringers of beauty that God created us to be.
Hi Nik! I feel so blessed to have been a blessing and comfort to you, with the comfort by which the Holy Spirit has comforted me : ) Thank you for sharing that lovely picture of how wonderful marriage can be when men and women are both walking in their God given roles in a Godly way! Thank you also for that encouraging definition of the beauty that is woman. Have a blessed day : )
Timo, thank you for responding. I read everything and those were peaceful words. It just goes to show that people do interpret the bible differently, but you can’t just read it, you have to pray over yourself and even do some research.
I had actually just encountered another religious man who seems to believe the women are the tail and men are the head. I’ve had this personally told to me by a crazed man in my face, and I couldn’t believe he said that. It seems like when men want to talk to me about God, that’s the FIRST thing they target, is a women’s role. Luckily, I have had some really good men in my life who remind me of nothing but the love of God and that I can do anything through him. But those that are poison seem to really confuse me sometimes.
I try not to use “glasses.” I try to read it from a blank perspective. When reading the Bible, this is the conclusion that I come to: men are the priority, women come second. There are a few verses that seem otherwise, but are there ANY verses that suggest that God might not love men as much? Any at all? I think that says something. It seems to me that God loves men much more. Just look at the way He made the world. Patriarchy is the default. EVERY culture that I’ve read about, except maybe one or two, is patriarchal. Men are also stronger and more competitive than women. It’s a formula for oppression. Based on the research that I’ve done, for hundreds of years, people took the submission thing to mean that husbands can beat their wives because their wives are too stupid to know right from wrong. So, if they loved their wives, they would correct them, but it couldn’t go the other way around. That is not fair.
I think of it this way: Say that there is a school, and each student is either intellectual or artistic. Every intellectual student has a roommate which must be an artistic student, and they work together and do projects together. So the rules at the school are that the artistic students must be subject to the intellectual student in not only school work, but EVERYTHING. That means how the dorm is decorated, how the money and food is handled, and of course the intellectual student is the leader of all the projects. Also, only the intellectual student can present a project or speak in class. The artistic student, for ambiguous reasons, must remain silent. All the teachers were intellectuals, and if an artistic student wants to become a teacher, they must only teach other artistic students. Of course, they want the intellectual students to be kind to the artistic students. But everyone knows that power corrupts. The school says, “Oh, equality and all that! Every one of our students can graduate from our school and we love them all the same!” People can say it all they want, but it doesn’t make it true.
So…it might not be good, but that’s the way I see it. Depression’s rough! Be nice to everyone.
Hi BudgieBird!
I will share with you the revelation that Jesus gave me concerning the things that you have written.
Firstly, perspective is simply the way we see or any thoughts that we have about something. If you had ever seen or heard anything about God or the roles of women or men before you read the Bible, you weren’t reading it with a blank perspective.
Since we will have a perspective when we read the Bible, it is in our best interest to renew our minds in order that the perspective be shaped by the truth of God’s Word, instead of the opinions or actions of people.
Since you wrote of patriarchy, I will copy and paste from my previous post concerning authority:
**Even when we look at the institution of marriage, the fact that God has made the husband the authority does not make the wife any less valuable in the eyes of God. And any man that believes that must then make himself less valuable in the eyes of God for the authorities to whom he has to submit. ROMANS 13:1-2- Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established…Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment to themselves. So this scripture shows us that God has also called men to be subject to authority as well, be that a supervisor, police officer, the government, etc. And again if a man doesn’t believe that he is less valuable than his supervisor because of having to submit to that person’s authority… then he can’t logically say that women are less valuable because of a particular authority to which they must submit.**
As far as God setting up a system designed for oppression, it seems that you are confusing men using their free will to commit evil with God’s original intent. Just as it was never God’s intent for humans to suffer death, it was also never His intent for husbands to use their authority to oppress their wives or men to use their physical strength advantage to abuse women. It only stands to reason that God would create men physically stronger since He has set them in place as protector of women. It becomes clear in scripture that God has given husbands authority to love, cherish, and protect their wives just as Christ did for the Church.
EPHESIANS 5:23, 25, 28-29
* For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the Church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it;
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself, For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the Church. *
God calls the husband to give his life to protect the life of his wife, which clearly shows that God values the lives of women as much as the lives of men. You have said that there are a few verses that sound as if God loves women as much, but there are many more than just a few. When you read the Bible as a whole, there are a multitude of verses that paint a specific picture that God loves all of His children equally. I have listed some in my previous posts and that is just a small sample. If you are seeking specific scriptures that leave no doubt that the life of a woman is just as precious in God’s eyes as the life of a man: I offer Judges 19 and 20.
This is a story of 25,000 men of the tribe of Benjamin whom were killed by God’s chosen people (at the Word of God) because some of their members murdered 1 woman.
You have spoken truly when you mentioned, “This is how I see it.” The Word specifically warns us against leaning to our own understanding. True understanding of Scripture comes through revelation from the Holy Spirit to those whom are in intimate relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
LUKE 23:44-45
* He said to them, ” This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.”
Then He opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.*
I pray that you will be given a revelation of the Father’s tremendous love for all of His children.
EPHESIANS 1:17
* I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know Him better. *
God bless you = )
Timo
Hi Darian!
You are very welcome : ) I’m glad that the Holy Spirit spoke some peace to you through my post.
I am feeling led to offer some additional enlightenment in these matters… I hope you don’t mind.
I think there are some things in the Word of God that are very important for us to keep in mind…
Firstly, I Corinthians 14:33- For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Secondly, John 8:44- … When he (the devil) speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So when I look at these two facts together, I believe that the enemy is sending these men to speak lies to you in order to confuse you and make you doubt your equal value as a woman. Even when we look at the institution of marriage, the fact that God has made the husband the authority does not make the wife any less valuable in the eyes of God. And any man that believes that must then make himself less valuable in the eyes of God for the authorities to whom he has to submit. Romans 13:1-2- Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established…Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment to themselves. So this scripture shows us that God has also called men to be subject to authority as well, be that a supervisor, police officer, the government, etc. And again if a man doesn’t believe that he is less valuable than his supervisor because of having to submit to that person’s authority… then he can’t logically say that women are less valuable because of a particular authority to which they must submit. Also, Ephesians 5:22 instructs wives to submit to their own husbands…not every woman to every man just because he is a man!
In regards to the man telling you that men are the head and women are the tail…. He is probably thinking of the Word saying that wives are to submit to their husbands because a man is head of the woman as also Christ is head of the church. There is also another scripture that says the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man.. but notice how is says the head of every man is Christ and then in the very next line it doesn’t say the head of every woman is the man? When one reads the entire counsel of the Word of God, it becomes clear that these are referring to the man’s authority in the marriage institution, as are many other scriptures. But again, even if it was saying that every man is the head of every woman… it’s still just speaking of authority, not men being superior to women as people.
He is also definitely taking a scripture in the Old testament out of context as well. That particular scripture that the man was speaking to you is from a line in Deuteronomy 28. The whole entire 28th chapter is God speaking to the nation of Israel, telling them that He will bless the work of their hands, they will be the head and not the tail, above and not beneath, they will lend to many nations and never have to borrow, etc, if they are careful to listen to and live by His statutes and commands; it has nothing whatsoever to do with gender roles… Which leads us to the next scripture to keep in mind:
II Timothy 2:23- But foolish and uninstructed questionings refuse, knowing that they beget fights. When someone comes to us speaking things that are contrary to the Word of God or using scriptures out of context, we know that they have not had proper instruction in the Word of God. This scripture tells us that we need to refuse to have these conversations with them. Jesus gives us a good example of this when He was tempted by the devil in the wilderness. For every lie that the enemy told Him, He didn’t engage in debate with him… He simply spoke a truth in God’s Word in response. A practical example for you would be the next time a man says something contrary to the Word or takes a scripture out of context concerning the value of women, etc, you could simply respond with… ” I can’t receive that because it has been written, For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3: 26, 28) And if they use something out of context concerning wives, you could respond with… ” I can’t receive that because it has been written, Husbands…assigning honor to your wife as indeed co-heirs of the grace of life.
Praying that God will help shine light on your areas of confusion. God bless, Darian.
Hi Timo, you offered Judges 19-20 as a scripture to validate the value of women but it has left me sick to the stomach! The guy offers his concubine to the ravaging men outside to save his own skin (because they actually want him) and they abuse and rape her all night ultimately killing her, while he sleeps. Then he complains about it because she is dead (even though he gave her to them to be abused by multiple men – he doesn’t care that she was abused, only that his ‘object’ is dead). So the tribes of Israel go out to battle against Benjamin because of what these men did and yes God agrees that it they should go to battle about it. But then Israel kills all the men, women and children at another place, except the virgins who they take as wives. It’s horrible! So disgustingly horrible.
The only peace I can get from it is that God agreed to fighting the tribe of Benjamin over what happened to the poor girl because they inquired of Him (but her husband should have been killed too for not protecting her), and the other atrocities were not God’s command (rather just something they decided to do). As Judges 21:25 says …”every man did what was right in his own eyes.”
The Old Testement devastates me and I find it hard to read without feeling terribly sad for the women living in that time. Are there any old Testement stories of men of God actually standing up for women as valuable people who have feelings and are of worth as humanbeings not a man’s object?
Hi Nik!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts in this. I can greatly empathize with your feelings of distress at the mistreatment of women in the Old Testament. There are many things in it that pain me exceedingly, as well.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, I wasn’t offering the scripture to validate women but rather to show the value of a female life in the eyes of God, so much so that He ordained that 25,000 lives of men to be taken in return.
I began to search for scriptures according to your request, but the Holy Spirit restrained me and spoke this to my heart:
If we are looking to people for validation (be it as women or human beings in general), we will always be disappointed. Our validation must come from who we are in Christ; From how God values us, not from how man values us.
Likewise, if we look to the evil done with the free will of mankind and attribute it to God, we will never have peace.
It is not our place to tell God what He should have done, or what should have occurred in any given situation.
Isaiah 55:8-9
* For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways, ” says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways. And My thoughts higher than your thoughts.
Job 34: 10-12
Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding: Far be it from God to do wickedness, and from the Almighty to commit iniquity. For He repays man according to his work, and makes man to find a reward according to his way. Surely God will never do wickedly, Nor will the Almighty pervert justice.
We serve a good God!
Have a blessed day : )
Hi all Children of The Lord. It has been a while since I have posted and I have struggled with my place as a Women in this world for awhile. Through prayer I believe Jesus has put me on the correct path. The first thing He asked me to do last summer was to shut off the tv for a week so I could have quiet time and not be distracted. I could pick which week but it had to go and this was going to be a challenge for me because when I get home from work late at night, well not much else to do. As it happened I picked premiere week for most of my shows which I Tape anyway being I work nights. Hey, no cheating here I just couldn’t watched my taped shows for a week. Anyway that week was very beneficial to my relationship with Christ. I learned about some really fine ministers on the internet. I watched some of their sermons on youtube. One was Kris Vallotton and his sermon Jesus: Founder of the Women’s Liberation Movement. I ordered several dvds and gave them to some women I worked with. At the end of the sermon I broke down with my hands covering my face and tears of Joy streaming down my face. You would have to see it to understand what I am talking about. Anyway that was the beginning of Jesus’s breakthrough with me. Even though I knew Jesus Loved me I still had that lingering struggle going on inside my mind. See it is not enough to know what’s right I had to feel it in my head as well as my heart and I had no idea I was being attacked by a demon that was tormenting me on a daily basis. This all came to light with me about a month ago. I was searching the internet again for the Good News for Women in Christ and I was lead to purchase a cd called Finding Freedom (spiritual warfare for women) by John and Stasi Eldredge. The message on this cd put all the remaining pieces together for me. I understood every day when I was getting ready for work a demon was whispering in my ear how God did not Love me as much as a man and reminding me of some men’s bad behavior and so on and so on. You know the lies are endless when it comes to the master of deceit. Needless to say, although people couldn’t tell I was walking around with resentment alive and well in my heart and feeling just awful. See I have been a born again Christian for 18 yrs. now and I was ashamed I just could not get ahold of this in my life. Remember I did not know I was being attacked. I thought this is just the way it is while we are here. I remember wondering where the Holy Spirit that had announced himself in me so clearly when I gave myself to Christ was. After I listened to the cd I realized what was happening and I had all the tools with me when I received the Holy Spirit. I had the authority to cast out that demon in the Name Of Jesus Christ. You know after years of torment that demon packed up and left me immediately! Praise The Lord. I think one of the keys to success is Awareness. We as God’s Children must be on alert and dismiss any negative thoughts right away. We cannot serve God and have resentments in our hearts at the same time. And also we cannot hear God’s words or be the person God intends us to be. This is so very clear to me. Today I feel Grateful, Blessed, and Honored to be a Woman. Btw I had so much trouble typing this out so either I’m having a stroke or the devil just didn’t want this info. leaked. Thanks for listening and congratulations you made it to the end.
Di
Thanks for sharing your testimony Di. When I was going through these struggles of women’s value I would often go to bed listening to podcasts (I still do when I can’t sleep). When I awoke it was Kris Valloton preaching “Jesus – founder of the first women’s liberation movement”. It was like God woke me up for that very talk at that time I really needed to hear it. God is so good and Jesus really shows us His heart. It’s cool how Kris explains even those scriptures that can be taken as an offense and explains it in relation to the culture and how it was actually because of the love that Jesus demonstrated to women that they were mentioned in scripture. Women loved Jesus, because He loved them first!
Thank you Nik for your comments and thank you to Ryan for this thread. There is something further I feel I need to say. Part of the reasons I think it is hard to recognize when we are under attack is that there is some truth in what the demons are feeding us. They are just overestimated and over exaggerated. So we come away thinking all men are evil to women. This is just not true. And while I may have not thought well of men in general some of my closest friends were and are men. Also very important to find a good church to go to. One that lifts you up as a Woman in Christ. Our God is an “I can God” not an I can’t God. Okay one last thing, I use to think that if I would just let the resentment go I would be saying that hey it’s okay to treat Women bad. This is also a lie. Your inner peace from the Holy Spirit does not take away the fact that you care that someone was wronged. For instance, now when I hear a story that unfortunately we hear too often of a man hurting a woman – I think to myself how horrible but I do not carry it around with me anymore. That is counter productive and only hurts me. I always give everybody a fair shot when meeting them and I always have – until they prove otherwise. I do know that there are some men out there that feel they are entitled where I am not. But if they think that way the adjustment is on them to make not me. Wisdom is truly a gift from God and we should pray for it everyday. God Bless All. Di
If God loves women , how come so many women are slaved, abused, raped,punched, paid less, consider evil, less than a camel like the Arabs say. Why are women always the ones to blame for men’s actions ? How
Some God doesn’t allow for equality in the world if there is a God to begin with?. So many wars in the name
of God women and children always pay the price if God love women and children why are they always the victims of extreme brutality by his sons (men).?
Yes, even das fondle and molest their daughters. Where is the justice in any of it?