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On Punk Rock Advice

A middle-aged dude recently wrote in to the advice columnist for The Atlantic. The columnist is James Parker who is, I imagine, some kind of therapist? A secular wellness guru? I actually have no idea who James is or the nature of his credentials. Maybe he’s just the staff writer who drew the short straw at the team meeting. Nonetheless, James was asked the following question from the aforementioned middle-aged dude (I guess I don’t know for sure that the writer is male… for the purposes of this post, I’m sticking with “dude” because it seems like a vaguely dude-ish question and because, well, I, too, am middle-aged and would occasionally like to feel more rock and roll than I do!):

I’m not very punk rock. Not even a little. I’m well into middle age and experiencing my first taste of the many small indignities sure to come. I wear sensible shoes with gel insoles scientifically designed to relieve the pain and discomfort of plantar fasciitis. I have long and detailed conversations about insurance.

And yet, in my heart, I believe that all is mendacity. That virtue is impossible. That the system crushes us all beneath its relentless wheel. I tell hilarious jokes about the cruel pointlessness of existence and receive only blank stares in return. If the world were to perish in flames, I’m pretty sure it would be no more than it deserved.

So, the middle-aged dude is feeling a bit of tension between the self that wears gel insoles and the self that believes that most punk rock of creeds, that nihilism is the brute fact of reality and that our task is to stylishly and loudly rage against the pointlessness of it all. I guess one would indeed feel conflicted about buying life insurance in the face of “the cruel pointlessness of existence.” After all, why insure a life that has no meaning? Why make sure everything is in order in a system that “crushes us all beneath its relentless wheel?”

James’ “advice” is interesting. He basically tells our conflicted middle-aged gel insole-wearing punk rocker to be proud of his courageous nihilism but to use it as a “stimulant rather than as a philosophical end point.” Appreciate the taste of donuts more. Help little old ladies with their shopping. Which sort of seems to avoid the question entirely. An actual nihilist would probably believe that “it’s all bollocks and everyone dies” is the philosophical end point. That’s why it’s called nihilism. Telling someone, “Your nihilism is super cool but use it as fuel to be a nice person who appreciates life” would seem among the more spectacular examples of missing (or not understanding, or simply evading) the point. I suppose one should probably not expect too much philosophical sophistication from James the Atlantic guy who answers readers’ questions. Maybe his boss should tell him to go read up on Nietzsche.

By way of contrast, I was struck again by another advice column that I sometimes read, Nick Cave’s Red Hand Files. Cave was recently asked two questions about children. The first questioner wondered whether or not Cave was a “natalist” (a fancy term for someone who thinks that children are worth bringing into the world—i.e., a regular person for most of human history). The second was a more searching question from a woman who was grieving the grandchildren she would never have as her son was evidently not a “natalist.” To the first, Cave offered this:

I have heard the many reasons people cite for choosing not to have children—that it is wrong to bring a child into this terrible world, that they are too costly, that they disrupt careers, that they hinder freedom and realisation of one’s true self, that having them is ruinous to the body, that we are at risk of overpopulation, that children are detrimental to the environment, that they are patriarchal instruments of oppression, that they are messy, that they are annoying, that motherhood is yuck, that fatherhood is boring, and so on. I appreciate these arguments and understand that many people lead extremely beneficial and fulfilling lives without feeling the need to have children. I also acknowledge that not everyone has the choice.

However, I think that if we are to attribute any value to the future of the world and invest in its continuance, we must keep on populating it. Children are indicators of our faith in the world itself, they are emissaries of optimism, charging into the future with their pockets full of hope.

Are there more robust philosophical and theological responses to the question of whether human life is worth extending into the future? Of course. But not bad from a punk rocker. The last sentence is certainly a lovely bit of poetry.

To the woman grieving her child’s choice to refuse to have children, Cave’s words were even more poignant:

Eternity is more than progeny. It is also measured by what we contribute to the world during our allotted time. It is enriched by the good we do, for each of us is responsible for shaping our own destiny and filling that time with meaning and momentum. Our love for the world, and our concern for it, keep eternity wide and bright and full of potential as our actions reverberate into the future. Regardless of the regrets we may encounter, the disappointments and tragedies, it is our spiritual duty to cherish the world around us.

The contrast between the two advice columnists about the value of life could hardly be starker. “Enjoy your donut and help an old person with their shopping” (the question of how or why a consistent nihilist would think there could exist a moral imperative to help anyone was also left untouched by our friend James); and, “It is our spiritual duty to cherish the world around us.” Again, more could and should obviously be said. But Cave is basically channeling Paul’s exhortation to the Philippian church to rejoice always here. Or any number of the Psalms. Or Jesus himself, telling us that God so loved the world (and, by implication, that we probably should, too).

At any rate, in the unlikely event that I were ever inclined to write in to an advice columnist, I’m pretty sure I would go with the actual punk rocker and not James from The Atlantic.


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21 Comments Post a comment
  1. Brenton Dickieson's avatar

    Jeepers, this is great, Ryan, smart, punchy, well written.

    June 4, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      Thanks kindly, Brenton.

      June 4, 2025
  2. ken@saanichcommunity.ca's avatar
    ken@saanichcommunity.ca #

    Hey Ryan, joy to read, as always, your musings and wisdom.

    A blessed summer to you and Naomi,

    Ken

    June 4, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      Thanks, Ken. To you as well.

      June 4, 2025
  3. chris's avatar
    chrisbrundage502c9d3ad3 #

    Yes, the nihilists aren’t consistent with their nihilism. They don’t follow their own logic to its conclusion.

    Even those of us without children pray for a fruitful life, for fruitfulness comes in many forms, as you note.

    Eloquent as always, thank you.

    June 4, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      Thanks, Christ. Yes, fruitfulness does indeed come in many forms. And I love the term you’ve chosen. To “bear fruit” is a much worthier and truer goal than to incoherently and inconsistently rage against the crushing wheel.

      June 4, 2025
  4. erahjohn's avatar

    Hello.

    June 5, 2025
    • erahjohn's avatar

      I’ve had trouble posting. Not sure why.

      June 5, 2025
      • erahjohn's avatar

        Poor, “Atlantic James”. Enjoying a good doughnut and helping an elderly person with their shopping, seems like a day well spent to me.

        Cave’s trying to hard to be a provocative writer and misses the point.

        You believe in families and you have children because of that and because of her. The one you love. You want to have your children with her.

        When you have no one to love and to love you in return, then you concoct all sorts of reasons as to why having kids is a bad idea.

        As for the broken hearted mother, I think she suffers just as much from the rejection of her as a mother by her child, as well as the fact that there will not be grandchildren in her future.

        June 5, 2025
      • Ryan's avatar

        If all Atlantic James was doing was encouraging us to spend our days enjoying donuts and helping old ladies, I’d be fine with it. It’s the linking of it with nihilism that I take issue with (and which was the point of the post).

        Re: Nick Cave, perhaps you should try to avoid judging other writers too harshly. 😉 I don’t think he’s missed the point at all. At the bare minimum, he has gestured toward a coherent justification (love) for spending one’s life in beneficent ways which is more than can be said for Atlantic James.

        June 5, 2025
      • erahjohn's avatar

        paragraph 3 should read…because of that belief and because of her….

        June 5, 2025
      • erahjohn's avatar

        I understand how you are framing your argument but what I hear James say also is that, in spite of (or maybe because of) our existential resentments, fears, and overall cynicism, we should walk through life in small steps. One day at a time. Enjoy a tasty doughnut or help a person in need. It’s good advice.

        After all do we seriously think their are nihilists in this world or just too many broken hearted people who are lacking for love… I just read it differently then you do. You write about it better than me lol.

        We all judge writing. You like Cave. I don’t. I hear a much better and more honest artist as a musician, then I read in his writing. Overall, he seems to go to great pains not to offend anyone or take too strong a stand in most of what I’ve read by him. Very, “Top 40” commercially speaking. Not at all like the singer known for his murder ballads.

        As for what he writes here about not having children, I think he is deflecting. Pandering to progressive tropes about life.

        If you choose, however challenging your life is to you, not to live for others, you are choosing to be less than human. Less then what you ought to be and less than what God made you to be. Within the context of Cave’s framing of the issue, this would be a better answer to give.

        As for me, I say, meet a girl, fall in love, put each other and your children first, then live your life as a family. It is God’s way. If that option is not available to you, then it is your cross to carry. We all have one. Forgive and live a life of service to others where and when you can.

        Everything else is the mantra of broken hearted denial, grad students and sociopaths. Amen.

        June 5, 2025
      • Ryan's avatar

        It’s “good” advice only if one avoids the central question about nihilism and if one assumes that the category of goodness requires no justification (a rather large problem from nihilistic presuppositions). Again, this was the point of my post.

        I am aware that you don’t like Nick Cave’s writing. You’ve made this clear on a number of occasions. I think you choose to interpret him uncharitably (he’s actually quite critical of progressive woke-ism at times) but there’s probably nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise, which is fine.

        I was also clear in the post that more could and should be said from a philosophical and theological perspective. So, yes, I agree with your last few paragraphs. For the purposes of the post, I was mainly pointing out that at least the real punk rocker unapologetically argues that there is a purpose for life, that eternity beckons, that we have good reasons for having children and for living lives of love when we can’t. Which, again, is more than Atlantic James can coherently say about nihilism. That’s it.

        (Like you, I am also unconvinced that there are any actual nihilists in the world. Everyone smuggles in meaning somewhere. It could well be that Atlantic James’ questioner is simply lacking in love. For the purposes of the post, I was trying to take the question at face value to highlight what I see as a gross inconsistency in our cultural discourse.)

        June 5, 2025
  5. Renita's avatar
    Renita #

    Love your writing. I always look forward to it, Ryan.

    We’ve been having conversations about the ‘…fancy term for … a regular person for most of human history” and find Norm MacDonald’s question to Richard Dawkins appealing:

    “Why does life insist? If nothing matters, why not choose the obvious thing and go extinct?”

    Thanks for always bringing fresh perspective to the stuff that culture is swirling around in its glass.

    June 5, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      Thanks, Renita.

      “Why does life insist?” What a great question (and what a great way to put it!). Such an important and interesting conversation to have…

      June 5, 2025
  6. erahjohn's avatar

    Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

    I understand your argument about the inherent contradiction within nihilism. You and many others have been making it at least as long as, Richard Dawkins appeared on the scene. I just think it is an argument that wins debating points but doesn’t really help people change their lives.

    If we want to help with their healing, why people are self proclaimed nihilists matters. Wether or not their claims are always rational or without contradiction, not so much.

    There is truth in your comment about my critique of Cave. I am reflexively suspicious of all artists and celebrities who offer advice/help type columns or commentary later on in their careers. However well intended their viewpoints may be, it seems like a well trodden path that many take for commercial gain and continued public presence. I know it sounds cynical but I often think it is more about marketing then real meaning…and so it goes.

    For better and sometimes worse, I will always/encourage/move/shove/force a conversation towards it’s theological meaning. To the best I’m able.

    How does what we discuss with one another draw us closer to the love of God and love for one another? What else matters?

    From my point of view, time is short, I believe the beast is here and we will soon be plunged into a dystopian world.

    June 6, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      I obviously can’t presume to speak to the question of why a person who writes into an internet advice columnist is a nihilist or what healing they may or may not need in their lives. These are the kinds of questions that need to be negotiated with patience and care in the context of embodied relationships and communities. I can point out what apparently still needs pointing out (as the ideas still find their way into the public square in prominent media outlets): consistent nihilism is incompatible with objective meaning and morality. That is what I tried to do in the post.

      Re: Cave, you’re obviously welcome to whatever view of him you like. For my part, based on what I have heard and read from him, I can say with some confidence that the Red Hand Files has little to do with commercial gain and everything to do with seeking meaning and solace and community in the aftermath of the death of his son(s). Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I think that he lacks theological precision and commitment? Yes. Do I find him at times odd and inconsistent? Yes. But the “marketing over meaning” charge rings completely false to me. Whatever criticisms might be made of him, that one seems very misguided.

      June 7, 2025
  7. erahjohn's avatar

    You are right of course in your argument about nihilism. I just don’t think it will convince nihilists to be less nihilistic…lordy, lordy that’s a mouthful.

    I’ve learned through mistakes made with different people in my life that being on the right, rational end of an argument isn’t always helpful when people are hurting. You’re kinda telling someone who already thinks life is meaningless, that they are also contradictory, maybe even stupid.

    It all comes down to relationships and extending love, if we are to help those bewithched by the spirit of the anti-christ. Hard to do when those same spirits beckon at our own door.

    I want to be more charitable to Cave then I am, losing two children has to be a horrifying reality. The dirges and laments of, “Ghosteen” are so achingly honest to me, that they are almost unlistenable. I hope as you believe, that his writing is more purposeful than commercial. I suppose that is the challenge for everyone who writes for a living.

    June 23, 2025
    • Ryan's avatar

      Again, different approaches for different contexts. Perhaps I am naive, but I still stubbornly believe that rational arguments can serve a purpose. When it comes to hurting people, a piece of writing online can (at best) play a role in helping, but it will never even approach a holistic response. It’s not supposed to. That’s what communities and relationships and embodied conversations and concrete expressions of care and love are for.

      (I am aware that many people lack these very things, of course, and so seek them out online. This is among the myriad tragedies of our time.)

      June 24, 2025
      • erahjohn's avatar

        WRITE THIS DAY DOWN ON YOUR CALENDERS, BOYS AND GIRLS!!

        Me and my boy Ryan agree on sonething….sorta….in a roundabout way…as close as we may ever get….

        June 24, 2025
      • Ryan's avatar

        Well, I’ve not changed my mind about anything I said in the post and have mostly just restated what I’ve said in previous comments and in response to similar critiques of yours in other posts (i.e., that blog posts are limited in their scope and cannot/should not replace embodied communities and relationships), but… ok 🙂

        June 25, 2025

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